1 00:00:12,780 --> 00:00:09,740 [Music] 2 00:00:15,090 --> 00:00:12,790 hello and welcome to the show and I'm 3 00:00:16,710 --> 00:00:15,100 here with and I hope I pronounce his 4 00:00:21,900 --> 00:00:16,720 name correctly that's one thing I forgot 5 00:00:25,170 --> 00:00:21,910 to ask him is dr. Jeremy Gehl ulla right 6 00:00:27,929 --> 00:00:25,180 on it's close that's exact yep that's it 7 00:00:30,810 --> 00:00:27,939 all right hey welcome to the show thanks 8 00:00:34,110 --> 00:00:30,820 so much for coming on and talking about 9 00:00:37,650 --> 00:00:34,120 this controversial topic we're hearing 10 00:00:39,479 --> 00:00:37,660 it a lot in the news and so first of all 11 00:00:41,580 --> 00:00:39,489 before we get into what it is exactly 12 00:00:46,770 --> 00:00:41,590 we're gonna be talking about what is 13 00:00:48,869 --> 00:00:46,780 your background to begin with so my name 14 00:00:51,389 --> 00:00:48,879 is as I said I'm dr. Jeremy blue my 15 00:00:52,860 --> 00:00:51,399 backgrounds computer science and I made 16 00:00:56,520 --> 00:00:52,870 technologist that works at the 17 00:01:00,389 --> 00:00:56,530 Electronic Frontier Foundation okay and 18 00:01:04,079 --> 00:01:00,399 have you like always had an interest in 19 00:01:06,660 --> 00:01:04,089 in working with this type of 20 00:01:08,610 --> 00:01:06,670 organization or how long have you been 21 00:01:11,250 --> 00:01:08,620 there first of all I've I've been with 22 00:01:14,820 --> 00:01:11,260 EF F for uh gosh now it's been almost 23 00:01:17,940 --> 00:01:14,830 four years and I before I started 24 00:01:20,220 --> 00:01:17,950 working at EF f my backgrounds actually 25 00:01:23,490 --> 00:01:20,230 robotics and computer science so oh well 26 00:01:25,710 --> 00:01:23,500 in in high school in college in grad 27 00:01:28,820 --> 00:01:25,720 school I was always focused on robotics 28 00:01:31,920 --> 00:01:28,830 and building autonomous cars or drones 29 00:01:34,350 --> 00:01:31,930 but eventually I realized that you know 30 00:01:35,970 --> 00:01:34,360 all the fancy was you know gadgets and 31 00:01:38,880 --> 00:01:35,980 whiz-bang technology I create I can 32 00:01:40,620 --> 00:01:38,890 create don't mean anything if there 33 00:01:43,200 --> 00:01:40,630 aren't you know common-sense regulations 34 00:01:44,850 --> 00:01:43,210 and you know rules out there if we don't 35 00:01:46,770 --> 00:01:44,860 have politicians that understand this 36 00:01:51,300 --> 00:01:46,780 technology yeah and so that's why I 37 00:01:54,480 --> 00:01:51,310 ended up yeah well that's uh that's 38 00:01:57,090 --> 00:01:54,490 exciting stuff to what you I mean that 39 00:01:58,980 --> 00:01:57,100 out that fascinates me too autonomous 40 00:02:01,320 --> 00:01:58,990 cars and where they're going to go you 41 00:02:04,260 --> 00:02:01,330 know I have a late-model car that has 42 00:02:06,300 --> 00:02:04,270 radar cruise control and auto dimming 43 00:02:08,219 --> 00:02:06,310 lights and lane control and all that and 44 00:02:10,020 --> 00:02:08,229 it's great I love it and I can't wait 45 00:02:10,610 --> 00:02:10,030 till it advances but that's for another 46 00:02:15,330 --> 00:02:10,620 show 47 00:02:20,320 --> 00:02:15,340 yeah for right now I would like to I'm 48 00:02:23,590 --> 00:02:20,330 gonna play a clip that was during a live 49 00:02:26,980 --> 00:02:23,600 interaction with John Legere he is the 50 00:02:32,790 --> 00:02:26,990 CEO of t-mobile I'm gonna play this clip 51 00:02:36,160 --> 00:02:32,800 right here for everyone to hear hang on 52 00:02:38,020 --> 00:02:36,170 so what what binge on it includes a 53 00:02:40,360 --> 00:02:38,030 proprietary technology and what the 54 00:02:42,520 --> 00:02:40,370 technology does is not only detect the 55 00:02:46,390 --> 00:02:42,530 video stream but select the appropriate 56 00:02:48,460 --> 00:02:46,400 bitrate to optimize to the video the 57 00:02:50,200 --> 00:02:48,470 mobile device that's part of my answer 58 00:02:52,960 --> 00:02:50,210 Part B of my answer is who to fire you 59 00:02:56,500 --> 00:02:52,970 anyway PFF why are you stirring up so 60 00:02:59,740 --> 00:02:56,510 much trouble and who pays you alright so 61 00:03:03,130 --> 00:02:59,750 that was it and he says who the F are 62 00:03:06,790 --> 00:03:03,140 you who who is Electronic Frontier 63 00:03:10,180 --> 00:03:06,800 Foundation so we are a digital civil 64 00:03:11,980 --> 00:03:10,190 liberties nonprofit so we're a nonprofit 65 00:03:16,570 --> 00:03:11,990 organization we're a weird combination 66 00:03:19,120 --> 00:03:16,580 of technologists like myself who as well 67 00:03:20,950 --> 00:03:19,130 as we've got activists and lawyers and 68 00:03:23,620 --> 00:03:20,960 basically we work together to make sure 69 00:03:26,470 --> 00:03:23,630 that the internet stays open and free 70 00:03:29,260 --> 00:03:26,480 that you don't get bad laws that govern 71 00:03:32,710 --> 00:03:29,270 the internet that we you know keep 72 00:03:36,040 --> 00:03:32,720 maintain our privacy online we work on 73 00:03:39,280 --> 00:03:36,050 other issues like patent law so 74 00:03:41,560 --> 00:03:39,290 copyright trolling that sort of thing we 75 00:03:44,470 --> 00:03:41,570 basically if it comes to civil liberties 76 00:03:46,600 --> 00:03:44,480 or civil rights or privacy and 77 00:03:49,630 --> 00:03:46,610 technology it's something that we work 78 00:03:53,380 --> 00:03:49,640 on now the one thing that I can't 79 00:03:55,420 --> 00:03:53,390 understand is how how do you control 80 00:03:59,259 --> 00:03:55,430 something or regulate something that is 81 00:04:01,270 --> 00:03:59,269 worldwide yeah that's a good question 82 00:04:03,699 --> 00:04:01,280 and a big part of what we do is trying 83 00:04:06,729 --> 00:04:03,709 to convince governments worldwide that 84 00:04:10,060 --> 00:04:06,739 you cannot control something that you 85 00:04:12,370 --> 00:04:10,070 know so I should probably start by 86 00:04:14,860 --> 00:04:12,380 saying just throwing the disclaimer out 87 00:04:16,479 --> 00:04:14,870 there I'm not a lawyer because a lot of 88 00:04:19,150 --> 00:04:16,489 people who work at EF F are lawyers but 89 00:04:21,849 --> 00:04:19,160 I am not so nothing I say is even close 90 00:04:25,140 --> 00:04:21,859 to legal advice or legal opinions but 91 00:04:27,700 --> 00:04:25,150 you know there's Canada for example 92 00:04:29,200 --> 00:04:27,710 recently had a court Russ it basically 93 00:04:33,220 --> 00:04:29,210 the Canadian equivalent of the Supreme 94 00:04:35,920 --> 00:04:33,230 Court ruled that they could 95 00:04:37,660 --> 00:04:35,930 Google who censor certain search results 96 00:04:39,070 --> 00:04:37,670 worldwide so no matter where you're 97 00:04:41,920 --> 00:04:39,080 searching from no matter what country 98 00:04:44,860 --> 00:04:41,930 because Canada thinks that their law is 99 00:04:46,750 --> 00:04:44,870 supreme they should be able to do that 100 00:04:48,610 --> 00:04:46,760 and of course the that's a ridiculous 101 00:04:51,070 --> 00:04:48,620 idea because why should Canadian law 102 00:04:53,440 --> 00:04:51,080 affect what people in the US search can 103 00:04:56,560 --> 00:04:53,450 search for or vice versa and we see that 104 00:04:57,970 --> 00:04:56,570 all over the world in Europe there's 105 00:05:00,010 --> 00:04:57,980 this thing called the right to be 106 00:05:03,570 --> 00:05:00,020 forgotten where companies are supposed 107 00:05:05,350 --> 00:05:03,580 to censor certain results and 108 00:05:07,810 --> 00:05:05,360 governments in Europe are trying to 109 00:05:09,420 --> 00:05:07,820 argue that you know it should extend no 110 00:05:11,980 --> 00:05:09,430 matter where someone is searching from 111 00:05:15,460 --> 00:05:11,990 and it's it's yeah it's kind of silly 112 00:05:17,370 --> 00:05:15,470 yeah I spent some time in Russia this 113 00:05:21,700 --> 00:05:17,380 year and I just came from Canada 114 00:05:24,640 --> 00:05:21,710 yesterday actually and so I noticed this 115 00:05:27,790 --> 00:05:24,650 geo blocking and you know in certain 116 00:05:30,120 --> 00:05:27,800 websites and how does that how does that 117 00:05:33,220 --> 00:05:30,130 work I can't understand how that works 118 00:05:36,940 --> 00:05:33,230 so I basically the way it works is when 119 00:05:39,670 --> 00:05:36,950 you're accessing a website that website 120 00:05:41,590 --> 00:05:39,680 knows what your IP address is so this is 121 00:05:44,890 --> 00:05:41,600 the the address given to your computer 122 00:05:47,500 --> 00:05:44,900 basically it's kind of like the I mean 123 00:05:50,470 --> 00:05:47,510 the bad the imperfect analogy is that 124 00:05:52,560 --> 00:05:50,480 it's like your address your like postal 125 00:05:55,930 --> 00:05:52,570 address but in terms of the internet 126 00:05:57,700 --> 00:05:55,940 it's a bad analogy because you move 127 00:05:59,320 --> 00:05:57,710 around your computer might end up having 128 00:06:00,550 --> 00:05:59,330 different you know IP addresses 129 00:06:02,440 --> 00:06:00,560 depending on whether you're connecting 130 00:06:05,410 --> 00:06:02,450 from home or from work or from a coffee 131 00:06:07,270 --> 00:06:05,420 shop from an airport but that's the 132 00:06:10,360 --> 00:06:07,280 imperfect thing and in particular IP 133 00:06:12,850 --> 00:06:10,370 addresses generally correspond to 134 00:06:14,530 --> 00:06:12,860 certain geographic regions because your 135 00:06:17,010 --> 00:06:14,540 IP address comes from your internet 136 00:06:18,850 --> 00:06:17,020 provider and your internet provider 137 00:06:21,430 --> 00:06:18,860 generally only serves a certain 138 00:06:22,950 --> 00:06:21,440 geographic area so that's how the geo 139 00:06:25,600 --> 00:06:22,960 block works they know that you know 140 00:06:27,160 --> 00:06:25,610 these particular addresses come from 141 00:06:28,840 --> 00:06:27,170 United States they've been assigned to 142 00:06:30,700 --> 00:06:28,850 companies in the United States who then 143 00:06:32,710 --> 00:06:30,710 give it out to their customers or they 144 00:06:35,650 --> 00:06:32,720 know that this one comes from someone in 145 00:06:37,060 --> 00:06:35,660 Canada or someone in Russia and so then 146 00:06:38,650 --> 00:06:37,070 the website that's doing the geo 147 00:06:40,540 --> 00:06:38,660 blocking or if they've subscribed to a 148 00:06:43,060 --> 00:06:40,550 service that'll help them help do it for 149 00:06:44,590 --> 00:06:43,070 them they say we'd you know these are 150 00:06:46,390 --> 00:06:44,600 the certain regions these are certain 151 00:06:47,779 --> 00:06:46,400 countries where we can or cannot show 152 00:06:51,079 --> 00:06:47,789 certain result 153 00:06:52,609 --> 00:06:51,089 and that then those services know okay 154 00:06:57,320 --> 00:06:52,619 when you connected to us that's what IP 155 00:06:59,359 --> 00:06:57,330 address in camera so okay now so I was 156 00:07:01,669 --> 00:06:59,369 under the misconception and it's only 157 00:07:04,339 --> 00:07:01,679 because I'm I'm not tech savvy in any 158 00:07:06,379 --> 00:07:04,349 type of way but I was under the 159 00:07:09,139 --> 00:07:06,389 misconception that an IP address was 160 00:07:12,109 --> 00:07:09,149 linked to a computer but it's not it's 161 00:07:14,659 --> 00:07:12,119 linked to where it connects from yeah 162 00:07:17,329 --> 00:07:14,669 exactly so you know my laptop I take it 163 00:07:18,889 --> 00:07:17,339 to work and I go to Google Google will 164 00:07:20,929 --> 00:07:18,899 see an entirely different IP address 165 00:07:22,399 --> 00:07:20,939 than when I connect from home it's the 166 00:07:24,679 --> 00:07:22,409 same thing with your you know your smart 167 00:07:26,629 --> 00:07:24,689 phone if you're connecting over Wi-Fi 168 00:07:28,189 --> 00:07:26,639 it'll be a different IP address than 169 00:07:31,219 --> 00:07:28,199 when you turn off the Wi-Fi and you're 170 00:07:33,679 --> 00:07:31,229 connecting on your providers network so 171 00:07:34,909 --> 00:07:33,689 it it just changes depending on it is 172 00:07:37,820 --> 00:07:34,919 about the connection that you're 173 00:07:40,009 --> 00:07:37,830 connecting through I see I see okay so 174 00:07:43,309 --> 00:07:40,019 the elephant in the living room here is 175 00:07:46,040 --> 00:07:43,319 net neutrality and it's very confusing 176 00:07:48,679 --> 00:07:46,050 what I want to talk about is what 177 00:07:50,779 --> 00:07:48,689 tonight is what net neutrality first of 178 00:07:53,869 --> 00:07:50,789 all is and the best way you can explain 179 00:07:56,989 --> 00:07:53,879 it and then second of all what would 180 00:08:01,419 --> 00:07:56,999 happened if all the regulations against 181 00:08:04,369 --> 00:08:01,429 that right right now are holding it back 182 00:08:06,769 --> 00:08:04,379 that can destroy net neutrality I want 183 00:08:12,109 --> 00:08:06,779 to talk about what would happen if that 184 00:08:14,419 --> 00:08:12,119 you know if they were robotic so so why 185 00:08:16,309 --> 00:08:14,429 does net neutrality so you know I've 186 00:08:17,749 --> 00:08:16,319 seen various definitions and you know 187 00:08:20,209 --> 00:08:17,759 there's you know really boring 188 00:08:23,600 --> 00:08:20,219 definitions about like an internet 189 00:08:26,449 --> 00:08:23,610 provider must not interfere with lawful 190 00:08:28,279 --> 00:08:26,459 traffic between the user and the users 191 00:08:30,379 --> 00:08:28,289 choice of destination or something like 192 00:08:33,409 --> 00:08:30,389 that but for me I just sort of ignore 193 00:08:35,569 --> 00:08:33,419 all these sort of boring definitions and 194 00:08:37,279 --> 00:08:35,579 I say for me net neutrality means that 195 00:08:39,230 --> 00:08:37,289 my internet provider so the company that 196 00:08:41,439 --> 00:08:39,240 I'm paying money to to get on the 197 00:08:44,509 --> 00:08:41,449 internet shouldn't mess with my traffic 198 00:08:46,670 --> 00:08:44,519 they shouldn't they shouldn't futz with 199 00:08:48,860 --> 00:08:46,680 it in any way so that means that if I'm 200 00:08:51,139 --> 00:08:48,870 sending you know if I'm trying to stream 201 00:08:54,050 --> 00:08:51,149 video that they shouldn't be throttling 202 00:08:55,790 --> 00:08:54,060 that video at least and and there's sort 203 00:08:57,230 --> 00:08:55,800 of this little asterisk there they 204 00:08:59,059 --> 00:08:57,240 shouldn't be doing it unless I ask them 205 00:09:00,500 --> 00:08:59,069 to do it on my behalf right like if I am 206 00:09:02,630 --> 00:09:00,510 a parent and I want my 207 00:09:04,310 --> 00:09:02,640 provider to do some sort of parental 208 00:09:07,130 --> 00:09:04,320 filtering that's fine you know if I'm 209 00:09:10,100 --> 00:09:07,140 asking them to do it that's a different 210 00:09:11,510 --> 00:09:10,110 story but absent that consent it 211 00:09:13,790 --> 00:09:11,520 basically means that your internet 212 00:09:15,410 --> 00:09:13,800 provider shouldn't be interfering in in 213 00:09:17,570 --> 00:09:15,420 what you do online they shouldn't be 214 00:09:19,820 --> 00:09:17,580 snooping through what you do online they 215 00:09:22,100 --> 00:09:19,830 shouldn't be deciding well we're gonna 216 00:09:24,680 --> 00:09:22,110 charge you for for some data but not 217 00:09:27,560 --> 00:09:24,690 other data because we like this data 218 00:09:30,830 --> 00:09:27,570 better because this company paid us to 219 00:09:32,810 --> 00:09:30,840 give you free data that's basically what 220 00:09:34,940 --> 00:09:32,820 it comes down to me it basically comes 221 00:09:36,590 --> 00:09:34,950 down to what you get on the internet you 222 00:09:38,780 --> 00:09:36,600 should be able to go wherever you want 223 00:09:41,990 --> 00:09:38,790 do whatever you want I mean that's 224 00:09:43,400 --> 00:09:42,000 lawful of course without any 225 00:09:45,140 --> 00:09:43,410 interference without your internet 226 00:09:48,080 --> 00:09:45,150 provider trying to think that they know 227 00:09:52,010 --> 00:09:48,090 what is best for you online okay and so 228 00:09:54,410 --> 00:09:52,020 how does that also play out to someone 229 00:09:56,840 --> 00:09:54,420 like me that I have a small website 230 00:09:59,180 --> 00:09:56,850 doesn't get a huge amount of traffic I 231 00:10:02,240 --> 00:09:59,190 have one website that gets a good amount 232 00:10:05,840 --> 00:10:02,250 of traffic you know maybe a hundred 233 00:10:08,360 --> 00:10:05,850 thousand you know visitors a month 234 00:10:12,230 --> 00:10:08,370 something like that and then I have one 235 00:10:14,450 --> 00:10:12,240 that you know is in the few thousand how 236 00:10:17,360 --> 00:10:14,460 would that affect a website or does that 237 00:10:19,310 --> 00:10:17,370 not even matter totally so one way that 238 00:10:20,720 --> 00:10:19,320 it affects it affects you know small 239 00:10:23,480 --> 00:10:20,730 businesses people who run their own 240 00:10:25,820 --> 00:10:23,490 websites is if these big corporations 241 00:10:28,040 --> 00:10:25,830 start to say well we're gonna have fast 242 00:10:29,300 --> 00:10:28,050 lanes and slow lanes and they don't like 243 00:10:31,220 --> 00:10:29,310 that terminology because it makes it 244 00:10:33,500 --> 00:10:31,230 sound bad but essentially that's what it 245 00:10:35,330 --> 00:10:33,510 comes down to if they say we're gonna 246 00:10:37,610 --> 00:10:35,340 have fast lanes and slow lanes then you 247 00:10:39,890 --> 00:10:37,620 can imagine that basically if you don't 248 00:10:41,930 --> 00:10:39,900 pay them you're in the slow lane and so 249 00:10:44,270 --> 00:10:41,940 then you have to for every internet 250 00:10:46,610 --> 00:10:44,280 provider that whose customers you now 251 00:10:48,350 --> 00:10:46,620 want to reach at a reasonable speed you 252 00:10:50,660 --> 00:10:48,360 have to go and pay them a little extra 253 00:10:52,100 --> 00:10:50,670 so you know when you when you set up 254 00:10:54,140 --> 00:10:52,110 your website you're paying someone to 255 00:10:55,280 --> 00:10:54,150 host it already you know connect it to 256 00:10:56,720 --> 00:10:55,290 the Internet you know you're already 257 00:10:58,610 --> 00:10:56,730 paying this and now the internet 258 00:11:00,860 --> 00:10:58,620 providers are saying well well well 259 00:11:02,720 --> 00:11:00,870 you know that's well and good but to you 260 00:11:05,000 --> 00:11:02,730 know really reach our you know all of 261 00:11:08,210 --> 00:11:05,010 the customers on Comcast or Verizon or 262 00:11:10,430 --> 00:11:08,220 AT&T you have to pay us the Internet 263 00:11:12,080 --> 00:11:10,440 provider to and it may not be a big 264 00:11:13,790 --> 00:11:12,090 amount but it's gonna be a hat I mean 265 00:11:14,269 --> 00:11:13,800 how many internet providers are out 266 00:11:19,069 --> 00:11:14,279 there 267 00:11:21,319 --> 00:11:19,079 are a whole ton of smaller ones and if 268 00:11:23,150 --> 00:11:21,329 you think to reach the entire world if 269 00:11:25,210 --> 00:11:23,160 every internet provider decided to start 270 00:11:27,860 --> 00:11:25,220 playing this you know this sort of game 271 00:11:29,360 --> 00:11:27,870 even if the cost isn't significant the 272 00:11:32,720 --> 00:11:29,370 cost in terms of your time and your 273 00:11:35,119 --> 00:11:32,730 effort to you know to do this would be 274 00:11:37,790 --> 00:11:35,129 huge and so that's one of the roadblocks 275 00:11:39,530 --> 00:11:37,800 that that net neutrality could introduce 276 00:11:41,150 --> 00:11:39,540 now if you ask the big providers they'll 277 00:11:44,960 --> 00:11:41,160 say well we're never gonna do this this 278 00:11:46,819 --> 00:11:44,970 isn't our plan and so from a small 279 00:11:49,460 --> 00:11:46,829 business perspective as long as they 280 00:11:52,759 --> 00:11:49,470 keep their word that's probably fine the 281 00:11:54,650 --> 00:11:52,769 scarier part is what what customers can 282 00:11:57,350 --> 00:11:54,660 do but you know you and I can do as 283 00:11:59,540 --> 00:11:57,360 people who get online on the Internet 284 00:12:01,069 --> 00:11:59,550 you know we have to go through I mean I 285 00:12:03,230 --> 00:12:01,079 don't know how many you choice how many 286 00:12:04,939 --> 00:12:03,240 choices you have where you live but if I 287 00:12:06,259 --> 00:12:04,949 want fast internet I basically have one 288 00:12:08,269 --> 00:12:06,269 choice and I live in a major 289 00:12:10,850 --> 00:12:08,279 metropolitan area like I can choose 290 00:12:12,530 --> 00:12:10,860 cable or DSL that's it you know one or 291 00:12:14,660 --> 00:12:12,540 the other and that's all my choices 292 00:12:16,610 --> 00:12:14,670 there are a few places that are lucky 293 00:12:18,799 --> 00:12:16,620 you know if you live in downtown San 294 00:12:21,139 --> 00:12:18,809 Francisco you have some pretty good 295 00:12:23,869 --> 00:12:21,149 choices if you live in you know the DC 296 00:12:26,540 --> 00:12:23,879 area you might have three choices but 297 00:12:29,240 --> 00:12:26,550 more or less you're stuck with one maybe 298 00:12:31,490 --> 00:12:29,250 two and if those companies decide to 299 00:12:33,019 --> 00:12:31,500 start saying that well some traffic is 300 00:12:35,299 --> 00:12:33,029 going to be faster than others or 301 00:12:36,530 --> 00:12:35,309 we're gonna charge you for some data but 302 00:12:40,490 --> 00:12:36,540 not others you don't really have a 303 00:12:43,910 --> 00:12:40,500 choice so if even though you know if I 304 00:12:46,340 --> 00:12:43,920 mean take a to me what is personally a 305 00:12:48,829 --> 00:12:46,350 scary example so I'm a I'm a big Star 306 00:12:51,679 --> 00:12:48,839 Trek fan all right ah I'm I'm 307 00:12:54,710 --> 00:12:51,689 unabashedly a nerd in a Trekkie and the 308 00:12:59,119 --> 00:12:54,720 new Star Trek show is only on available 309 00:13:01,129 --> 00:12:59,129 on CBS's online platform now Comcast on 310 00:13:04,340 --> 00:13:01,139 the other hand is a is jointly owned 311 00:13:07,249 --> 00:13:04,350 with NBC and so Comcast could say well 312 00:13:09,980 --> 00:13:07,259 you know we're gonna charge you extra to 313 00:13:11,929 --> 00:13:09,990 be able to access CBS's services you can 314 00:13:14,749 --> 00:13:11,939 access all the you know online NBC 315 00:13:16,819 --> 00:13:14,759 services you want you know for free 316 00:13:20,480 --> 00:13:16,829 they won't count against your data cap 317 00:13:21,949 --> 00:13:20,490 but CBS battles count against your data 318 00:13:23,689 --> 00:13:21,959 cap and so then I'm put in a position 319 00:13:25,490 --> 00:13:23,699 where the content that I want to get to 320 00:13:28,160 --> 00:13:25,500 I end up having to pay more for 321 00:13:29,660 --> 00:13:28,170 effectively and that's 322 00:13:31,240 --> 00:13:29,670 sort of thing where we've already seen 323 00:13:33,769 --> 00:13:31,250 this happen we've seen that Comcast 324 00:13:35,870 --> 00:13:33,779 doesn't charge customers to access its 325 00:13:37,519 --> 00:13:35,880 own content but if you want to go access 326 00:13:39,379 --> 00:13:37,529 someone else's it counts against your 327 00:13:42,139 --> 00:13:39,389 data cap so there's that sort of 328 00:13:45,199 --> 00:13:42,149 scenario where it's already happening 329 00:13:46,910 --> 00:13:45,209 and you know luckily so far the data 330 00:13:49,189 --> 00:13:46,920 caps have been generous particularly on 331 00:13:52,939 --> 00:13:49,199 you know fixed landline you know cable 332 00:13:55,400 --> 00:13:52,949 or DSL connections but if a company 333 00:13:58,220 --> 00:13:55,410 wanted to start you know flip that 334 00:13:59,840 --> 00:13:58,230 switch starts a throttling the video so 335 00:14:01,519 --> 00:13:59,850 that it took up less bandwidth because 336 00:14:02,960 --> 00:14:01,529 their network was too saturated and they 337 00:14:05,870 --> 00:14:02,970 didn't want to pay to upgrade their 338 00:14:08,810 --> 00:14:05,880 network you could see that that would 339 00:14:11,540 --> 00:14:08,820 cause a problem so there's lots of 340 00:14:12,949 --> 00:14:11,550 different ways that you know interfering 341 00:14:14,750 --> 00:14:12,959 with net neutrality treating some 342 00:14:17,870 --> 00:14:14,760 traffic different than others can be a 343 00:14:21,620 --> 00:14:17,880 problem now this this fast lane slow 344 00:14:23,720 --> 00:14:21,630 lane type of thing it's more of a slow 345 00:14:25,699 --> 00:14:23,730 lane than a fast lane right isn't it 346 00:14:28,460 --> 00:14:25,709 they're just throttling down or they're 347 00:14:30,620 --> 00:14:28,470 filtering down slowing down but it's oh 348 00:14:33,860 --> 00:14:30,630 it's always going to be just as fast as 349 00:14:36,500 --> 00:14:33,870 it would be otherwise do I have that way 350 00:14:38,120 --> 00:14:36,510 yeah so the argument they they've made 351 00:14:39,800 --> 00:14:38,130 sometimes as well it's not fast lanes 352 00:14:42,620 --> 00:14:39,810 and slowly it's it's fast lanes and 353 00:14:44,120 --> 00:14:42,630 superfast lanes but regardless of how 354 00:14:46,400 --> 00:14:44,130 you put it they're talking about having 355 00:14:48,710 --> 00:14:46,410 two different tiers of traffic mm-hm and 356 00:14:51,019 --> 00:14:48,720 which tier it is doesn't depend on what 357 00:14:52,490 --> 00:14:51,029 say I'm paying as a customer you know 358 00:14:55,340 --> 00:14:52,500 net neutrality isn't about you know I 359 00:14:57,530 --> 00:14:55,350 can pay $30 a month for you know the 360 00:14:59,780 --> 00:14:57,540 slow tier of service $50 a month for 361 00:15:02,120 --> 00:14:59,790 medium $100 a month for superfast 362 00:15:03,590 --> 00:15:02,130 internet you know that's still fine 363 00:15:05,720 --> 00:15:03,600 under net neutrality it's not about that 364 00:15:09,139 --> 00:15:05,730 sort of thing it's about once i've got 365 00:15:10,910 --> 00:15:09,149 i've you know chosen that then the my 366 00:15:12,980 --> 00:15:10,920 internet provider saying well now that 367 00:15:15,139 --> 00:15:12,990 you've got that you know whatever you 368 00:15:17,930 --> 00:15:15,149 know you've paid for our medium tier 369 00:15:19,730 --> 00:15:17,940 package that is you know 30 megabits per 370 00:15:21,050 --> 00:15:19,740 second instead of a hundred megabits per 371 00:15:22,970 --> 00:15:21,060 second but that's fine you're on a 372 00:15:24,980 --> 00:15:22,980 budget you know it's the internet 373 00:15:27,199 --> 00:15:24,990 provider than saying well you've paid 374 00:15:29,990 --> 00:15:27,209 for that but now beyond that we're gonna 375 00:15:32,090 --> 00:15:30,000 choose how fast things get to you so 376 00:15:33,980 --> 00:15:32,100 some things may get to you at that 30 377 00:15:36,290 --> 00:15:33,990 megabit per second speed some things may 378 00:15:38,689 --> 00:15:36,300 go slower some things may go faster it 379 00:15:41,639 --> 00:15:38,699 may still all averaged out to 30 380 00:15:43,199 --> 00:15:41,649 megabits per second but again 381 00:15:45,780 --> 00:15:43,209 bigger thing we're seeing them do is 382 00:15:47,699 --> 00:15:45,790 because there was such you know uh you 383 00:15:50,970 --> 00:15:47,709 know net neutrality this issue has been 384 00:15:53,040 --> 00:15:50,980 around for a while and so they've 385 00:15:55,230 --> 00:15:53,050 realized that doing that sort of 386 00:15:57,210 --> 00:15:55,240 throttling has gotten there's a lot of 387 00:16:00,119 --> 00:15:57,220 sort of pushback from customers because 388 00:16:01,739 --> 00:16:00,129 customers understand like oh my God why 389 00:16:03,449 --> 00:16:01,749 are you controlling the speeds when I've 390 00:16:05,609 --> 00:16:03,459 already paid you to give me fast every 391 00:16:08,579 --> 00:16:05,619 night so instead what they're really 392 00:16:10,439 --> 00:16:08,589 looking at is this idea of charging you 393 00:16:11,910 --> 00:16:10,449 and not charging you for data so they 394 00:16:14,400 --> 00:16:11,920 mask it and saying oh you're getting 395 00:16:16,049 --> 00:16:14,410 some data for free but what they're not 396 00:16:18,419 --> 00:16:16,059 saying is we're choosing what type of 397 00:16:19,889 --> 00:16:18,429 data you can get for free you don't get 398 00:16:21,840 --> 00:16:19,899 to choose what the ad you get for free 399 00:16:24,059 --> 00:16:21,850 and then we're gonna charge you for all 400 00:16:26,040 --> 00:16:24,069 the rest of the data and so if you've 401 00:16:28,710 --> 00:16:26,050 got data caps you hit those data caps 402 00:16:30,389 --> 00:16:28,720 then you have to pay more and so they're 403 00:16:32,730 --> 00:16:30,399 they're doing a really good you know 404 00:16:34,290 --> 00:16:32,740 marketing PR job of trying to cloak it 405 00:16:37,079 --> 00:16:34,300 in something that's good for customers 406 00:16:39,569 --> 00:16:37,089 right when it's still fundamentally 407 00:16:42,239 --> 00:16:39,579 taking away customer choice Wow 408 00:16:46,470 --> 00:16:42,249 now you know in a in a case like this 409 00:16:50,129 --> 00:16:46,480 it's always the term comes up follow the 410 00:16:51,749 --> 00:16:50,139 money I I think that you know this is 411 00:16:54,949 --> 00:16:51,759 just my own thoughts and I haven't heard 412 00:16:59,069 --> 00:16:54,959 anyone say this but it seems to me that 413 00:17:01,139 --> 00:16:59,079 someone is liable to make billions and 414 00:17:03,509 --> 00:17:01,149 billions and billions of dollars on this 415 00:17:07,500 --> 00:17:03,519 in just a few people I'm not done 416 00:17:08,970 --> 00:17:07,510 talking is that is that correct well 417 00:17:10,799 --> 00:17:08,980 it's it's certainly true that for the 418 00:17:13,380 --> 00:17:10,809 internet providers this is all about the 419 00:17:15,210 --> 00:17:13,390 money they they see you know they're 420 00:17:17,069 --> 00:17:15,220 already getting paid by their customers 421 00:17:21,120 --> 00:17:17,079 and then they see this opportunity to 422 00:17:22,649 --> 00:17:21,130 either I mean to to the internet 423 00:17:24,449 --> 00:17:22,659 providers essentially they want to start 424 00:17:28,590 --> 00:17:24,459 differentiating the markets they can 425 00:17:30,090 --> 00:17:28,600 extract the most money from from all of 426 00:17:34,080 --> 00:17:30,100 their customers so that you know some 427 00:17:36,180 --> 00:17:34,090 customers excuse me will say oh I don't 428 00:17:38,490 --> 00:17:36,190 need the special package that lets me 429 00:17:40,110 --> 00:17:38,500 see Netflix and Facebook because I don't 430 00:17:41,580 --> 00:17:40,120 use those services whereas someone else 431 00:17:44,070 --> 00:17:41,590 might say yes I'll pay the extra five 432 00:17:45,990 --> 00:17:44,080 dollars a month to use those services or 433 00:17:49,649 --> 00:17:46,000 to have those not count against my data 434 00:17:51,180 --> 00:17:49,659 cap or something like that and so for 435 00:17:53,279 --> 00:17:51,190 them it really is about trying to 436 00:17:55,080 --> 00:17:53,289 extract the maximum amount amount of 437 00:17:56,700 --> 00:17:55,090 money from their business from the 438 00:17:59,700 --> 00:17:56,710 customers but then also on the website 439 00:18:02,640 --> 00:17:59,710 side saying you know we could also 440 00:18:04,770 --> 00:18:02,650 extract money from websites because we 441 00:18:07,110 --> 00:18:04,780 have all these customers and if websites 442 00:18:08,940 --> 00:18:07,120 don't pay us then they will not reach 443 00:18:11,730 --> 00:18:08,950 our customers or they'll reach them at a 444 00:18:13,230 --> 00:18:11,740 slower rate or their data the data that 445 00:18:15,630 --> 00:18:13,240 comes from your website will count 446 00:18:17,370 --> 00:18:15,640 against my customers data caps and so 447 00:18:18,720 --> 00:18:17,380 they'll be less likely to want to use 448 00:18:20,430 --> 00:18:18,730 your website because they're worried 449 00:18:21,660 --> 00:18:20,440 about hitting their data caps so it's 450 00:18:24,510 --> 00:18:21,670 definitely about the money in the end I 451 00:18:28,170 --> 00:18:24,520 mean Comcast has you know Verizon have 452 00:18:30,540 --> 00:18:28,180 no you know no reason to really and well 453 00:18:31,950 --> 00:18:30,550 I should step back so for the most part 454 00:18:34,080 --> 00:18:31,960 it's about the money the other scary 455 00:18:36,630 --> 00:18:34,090 thing about net neutrality is it gives 456 00:18:40,080 --> 00:18:36,640 companies like Comcast and Verizon AT&T 457 00:18:43,050 --> 00:18:40,090 the opportunity to start censoring what 458 00:18:45,620 --> 00:18:43,060 their customers can see we haven't seen 459 00:18:48,110 --> 00:18:45,630 this happen thankfully so much in the US 460 00:18:50,850 --> 00:18:48,120 but we did see an example of this in 461 00:18:54,090 --> 00:18:50,860 Canada actually and I don't know why I'm 462 00:18:55,410 --> 00:18:54,100 ragging on Canada so much so I apologize 463 00:18:59,070 --> 00:18:55,420 I love Canada 464 00:19:01,080 --> 00:18:59,080 a wonderful place but we did see that 465 00:19:02,820 --> 00:19:01,090 there was an isp there was an internet 466 00:19:05,610 --> 00:19:02,830 provider in Canada which was in a 467 00:19:08,520 --> 00:19:05,620 contract dispute with one of its unions 468 00:19:10,020 --> 00:19:08,530 and that exactly which union it was but 469 00:19:12,270 --> 00:19:10,030 it was one of the unions that were a 470 00:19:15,030 --> 00:19:12,280 large swath of the employees came from 471 00:19:17,040 --> 00:19:15,040 that union and they decided to block 472 00:19:21,930 --> 00:19:17,050 their customers access to the union's 473 00:19:24,480 --> 00:19:21,940 website and you know one day it's an 474 00:19:26,430 --> 00:19:24,490 internet provider you know say you know 475 00:19:29,850 --> 00:19:26,440 again I don't think it's likely the 476 00:19:31,740 --> 00:19:29,860 Comcast or you know AT&T NBC or Verizon 477 00:19:33,090 --> 00:19:31,750 they're gonna start getting into the 478 00:19:35,460 --> 00:19:33,100 political game because they know it 479 00:19:37,890 --> 00:19:35,470 would be suicide for themselves but you 480 00:19:41,120 --> 00:19:37,900 can see a small ISP a small internet 481 00:19:42,960 --> 00:19:41,130 provider you know in the rural South 482 00:19:45,540 --> 00:19:42,970 deciding well we're going to start 483 00:19:48,120 --> 00:19:45,550 blocking access to pro-choice websites 484 00:19:51,090 --> 00:19:48,130 and you can see a similar small internet 485 00:19:53,580 --> 00:19:51,100 provider in you know in Boston saying 486 00:19:55,590 --> 00:19:53,590 we're gonna start blocking access to 487 00:19:57,180 --> 00:19:55,600 pro-life websites you know it goes both 488 00:19:59,160 --> 00:19:57,190 ways it doesn't matter which side of the 489 00:20:01,110 --> 00:19:59,170 aisle you're on you don't want to give 490 00:20:02,640 --> 00:20:01,120 your internet provider the power to 491 00:20:04,590 --> 00:20:02,650 start deciding what you can and can't 492 00:20:07,980 --> 00:20:04,600 access on the Internet 493 00:20:09,660 --> 00:20:07,990 now again that is much that 494 00:20:11,370 --> 00:20:09,670 a much smaller reason that internet 495 00:20:13,740 --> 00:20:11,380 providers have said they want to get rid 496 00:20:15,930 --> 00:20:13,750 of net neutrality the big part of it is 497 00:20:17,730 --> 00:20:15,940 definitely money but it's something to 498 00:20:21,060 --> 00:20:17,740 sort of keep in mind in the back of our 499 00:20:22,680 --> 00:20:21,070 heads right right about 2010 I don't 500 00:20:24,660 --> 00:20:22,690 know if you know this gentleman do you 501 00:20:28,140 --> 00:20:24,670 happen to know Dan Carlin he does a show 502 00:20:32,760 --> 00:20:28,150 called common sense on top of my head 503 00:20:35,790 --> 00:20:32,770 and okay anyway he has a real popular he 504 00:20:37,770 --> 00:20:35,800 has it's up in the top ten I think it's 505 00:20:39,240 --> 00:20:37,780 called hardcore history goes deep into 506 00:20:41,610 --> 00:20:39,250 history and things that happen in 507 00:20:44,280 --> 00:20:41,620 history as well so he has one of the top 508 00:20:46,440 --> 00:20:44,290 websites I interviewed him back in 2010 509 00:20:47,790 --> 00:20:46,450 and I remember he was all the way back 510 00:20:50,100 --> 00:20:47,800 then he was talking about net neutrality 511 00:20:53,100 --> 00:20:50,110 and if it was rolled back and the 512 00:20:55,590 --> 00:20:53,110 changes and basically he said to me 513 00:20:58,110 --> 00:20:55,600 during the show that he said someone 514 00:20:59,610 --> 00:20:58,120 like us if we go to upload a podcast 515 00:21:01,380 --> 00:20:59,620 while our listeners won't be able to 516 00:21:03,419 --> 00:21:01,390 listen to it for a couple of days is 517 00:21:05,220 --> 00:21:03,429 that is that something also can it 518 00:21:06,000 --> 00:21:05,230 affect something like that I mean I 519 00:21:08,460 --> 00:21:06,010 don't know if it'd work 520 00:21:11,100 --> 00:21:08,470 it would work like quite like that I 521 00:21:13,620 --> 00:21:11,110 mean it could be that you know you end 522 00:21:15,750 --> 00:21:13,630 up because your internet provider 523 00:21:18,360 --> 00:21:15,760 detects that you're uploading a podcast 524 00:21:21,570 --> 00:21:18,370 that they slow it down and say that's 525 00:21:23,460 --> 00:21:21,580 not important traffic and so it's slowed 526 00:21:25,799 --> 00:21:23,470 down compared to everyone else's traffic 527 00:21:27,780 --> 00:21:25,809 now again another thing because there's 528 00:21:31,470 --> 00:21:27,790 a lot of sort of technical nuance here 529 00:21:33,750 --> 00:21:31,480 you know if you as a user Seder in our 530 00:21:37,220 --> 00:21:33,760 internet provider yes it's okay if you 531 00:21:40,560 --> 00:21:37,230 slow down my podcasts compared to say my 532 00:21:42,600 --> 00:21:40,570 you know live videoconferencing because 533 00:21:44,220 --> 00:21:42,610 I want that to be snappy but if I'm 534 00:21:45,780 --> 00:21:44,230 uploading a podcast in the background 535 00:21:48,630 --> 00:21:45,790 it's okay if you slow that down in 536 00:21:50,130 --> 00:21:48,640 comparison to my other traffic again net 537 00:21:51,720 --> 00:21:50,140 neutrality says that's fine because 538 00:21:53,730 --> 00:21:51,730 you've asked them to do it and it's your 539 00:21:55,710 --> 00:21:53,740 traffic but if they say we're always 540 00:21:58,220 --> 00:21:55,720 gonna slow down all podcast uploads 541 00:21:59,850 --> 00:21:58,230 compared to say other people's 542 00:22:01,650 --> 00:21:59,860 videoconferencing even though you're 543 00:22:04,410 --> 00:22:01,660 paying the same amount for the same 544 00:22:06,330 --> 00:22:04,420 speed the same internet um you know your 545 00:22:08,160 --> 00:22:06,340 internet provider doesn't know if that 546 00:22:10,040 --> 00:22:08,170 podcast is an urgent you know breaking 547 00:22:13,220 --> 00:22:10,050 news you want to get up there or not 548 00:22:16,049 --> 00:22:13,230 they can't detect that automatically and 549 00:22:17,909 --> 00:22:16,059 so I don't know if it would do this sort 550 00:22:19,799 --> 00:22:17,919 of keeping it from being seen for a few 551 00:22:21,240 --> 00:22:19,809 days but there's definitely ways they 552 00:22:24,450 --> 00:22:21,250 could interfere with it for sure 553 00:22:28,409 --> 00:22:24,460 now what about sites I know Netflix 554 00:22:31,190 --> 00:22:28,419 takes a lot of bandwidth like 30 percent 555 00:22:33,990 --> 00:22:31,200 I've heard but what about like YouTube 556 00:22:37,230 --> 00:22:34,000 you know I mean will would that affect 557 00:22:39,990 --> 00:22:37,240 YouTube or would that could say Netflix 558 00:22:41,580 --> 00:22:40,000 and YouTube be part of a package that 559 00:22:43,200 --> 00:22:41,590 you'd have to buy if you wanted to visit 560 00:22:45,270 --> 00:22:43,210 them I mean is that one thing they could 561 00:22:47,010 --> 00:22:45,280 do something like that it's that's 562 00:22:49,380 --> 00:22:47,020 exactly the sort of thing they could do 563 00:22:51,779 --> 00:22:49,390 now now again there's a lot of pushback 564 00:22:54,270 --> 00:22:51,789 because once people start realized that 565 00:22:55,680 --> 00:22:54,280 what they're talking about when you 566 00:22:58,230 --> 00:22:55,690 think about a package like that is 567 00:23:00,180 --> 00:22:58,240 essentially the the cable TV if vacation 568 00:23:02,220 --> 00:23:00,190 for lack of a better word of the 569 00:23:03,750 --> 00:23:02,230 Internet where it's oh my god now I have 570 00:23:05,940 --> 00:23:03,760 to pay an extra five bucks to get this 571 00:23:08,700 --> 00:23:05,950 channel and an extra ten bucks for this 572 00:23:10,740 --> 00:23:08,710 package and extra 10 bucks to get this 573 00:23:12,270 --> 00:23:10,750 package but I only want that one part of 574 00:23:14,070 --> 00:23:12,280 this package you know I only really use 575 00:23:16,350 --> 00:23:14,080 YouTube not Netflix or something I don't 576 00:23:18,299 --> 00:23:16,360 even pay for Netflix but I still have to 577 00:23:19,500 --> 00:23:18,309 get both of them and you know that's the 578 00:23:21,180 --> 00:23:19,510 sort of thing they've realized there's a 579 00:23:22,649 --> 00:23:21,190 lot that I the internet providers who 580 00:23:24,899 --> 00:23:22,659 realized there's a lot of push back on 581 00:23:26,970 --> 00:23:24,909 and so instead what they've decided to 582 00:23:29,190 --> 00:23:26,980 start doing is saying you know we're 583 00:23:31,320 --> 00:23:29,200 gonna throttle all of the video 584 00:23:35,880 --> 00:23:31,330 this is particularly mobile providers 585 00:23:38,789 --> 00:23:35,890 you know t-mobile AT&T Mobile Verizon 586 00:23:41,240 --> 00:23:38,799 Wireless they've said well we're just 587 00:23:44,640 --> 00:23:41,250 gonna throttle all of the video because 588 00:23:46,320 --> 00:23:44,650 most of our customers are only you know 589 00:23:48,419 --> 00:23:46,330 watching clips of YouTube on their 590 00:23:51,510 --> 00:23:48,429 screens or on their you know small cell 591 00:23:53,279 --> 00:23:51,520 phone screens and what it doesn't take 592 00:23:55,470 --> 00:23:53,289 into account is that there are also 593 00:23:57,210 --> 00:23:55,480 plenty of customers for whom their 594 00:23:58,860 --> 00:23:57,220 mobile connection is their only internet 595 00:24:00,450 --> 00:23:58,870 service and they might plug it into 596 00:24:03,180 --> 00:24:00,460 their TV and want to be able to watch 597 00:24:04,830 --> 00:24:03,190 something in HD and there and they know 598 00:24:06,840 --> 00:24:04,840 that that's gonna eat a lot of data so 599 00:24:09,029 --> 00:24:06,850 they've paid for the data but despite 600 00:24:10,560 --> 00:24:09,039 that they still can't watch it at high 601 00:24:13,919 --> 00:24:10,570 quality because this video is being 602 00:24:17,279 --> 00:24:13,929 throttled and in some of these plans 603 00:24:18,600 --> 00:24:17,289 there's no way to opt-out of that and so 604 00:24:19,799 --> 00:24:18,610 that's a scenario where we're seeing 605 00:24:23,149 --> 00:24:19,809 that the internet providers are 606 00:24:25,230 --> 00:24:23,159 basically declaring war in some sense on 607 00:24:27,029 --> 00:24:25,240 customer choice when it comes to what 608 00:24:30,600 --> 00:24:27,039 level of video you can access on your 609 00:24:33,260 --> 00:24:30,610 mobile plan we haven't seen this happen 610 00:24:35,190 --> 00:24:33,270 on on you know landline connections yet 611 00:24:37,310 --> 00:24:35,200 but that is the sort of thing 612 00:24:39,750 --> 00:24:37,320 we're definitely you know if I'm a 613 00:24:42,810 --> 00:24:39,760 someone who specializes you know if I 614 00:24:45,450 --> 00:24:42,820 make a podcast that criticizes you know 615 00:24:47,669 --> 00:24:45,460 critiques special effects in movies I'm 616 00:24:49,169 --> 00:24:47,679 gonna want it to be seen in HD because I 617 00:24:50,490 --> 00:24:49,179 want to you know show how awesome this 618 00:24:50,820 --> 00:24:50,500 special effect was or something like 619 00:24:56,340 --> 00:24:50,830 that 620 00:24:59,220 --> 00:24:56,350 it's really gonna sort of cut down into 621 00:25:02,129 --> 00:24:59,230 the popularity of my podcast right now 622 00:25:06,320 --> 00:25:02,139 who pays for the general overall 623 00:25:09,560 --> 00:25:06,330 infrastructure of the internet ah 624 00:25:12,810 --> 00:25:09,570 essentially everybody is the right way 625 00:25:14,879 --> 00:25:12,820 to describe it I mean so there are you 626 00:25:16,919 --> 00:25:14,889 know you and I pay our internet provider 627 00:25:18,990 --> 00:25:16,929 to get on the Internet and so we're 628 00:25:20,610 --> 00:25:19,000 paying them and that and of course you 629 00:25:21,419 --> 00:25:20,620 know internet providers it takes a lot 630 00:25:23,850 --> 00:25:21,429 of money to build out that 631 00:25:26,580 --> 00:25:23,860 infrastructure to run all the cables to 632 00:25:29,399 --> 00:25:26,590 our houses to our buildings to our you 633 00:25:31,590 --> 00:25:29,409 know to you know work places to put up 634 00:25:35,340 --> 00:25:31,600 cell towers it's it's a lot of I mean 635 00:25:37,409 --> 00:25:35,350 it's I mean it's a big big operation and 636 00:25:39,810 --> 00:25:37,419 on the other side if you if you have a 637 00:25:42,600 --> 00:25:39,820 website you're paying some company to 638 00:25:45,389 --> 00:25:42,610 host the website you're paying them you 639 00:25:47,909 --> 00:25:45,399 know to connect your website to the 640 00:25:52,019 --> 00:25:47,919 Internet and as part of that they will 641 00:25:54,110 --> 00:25:52,029 then either pace their either the 642 00:25:59,460 --> 00:25:54,120 hosting company has a direct connection 643 00:26:00,810 --> 00:25:59,470 to other Internet networks or their 644 00:26:03,330 --> 00:26:00,820 pings they're paying an internet 645 00:26:04,950 --> 00:26:03,340 provider to it's probably not a Comcast 646 00:26:09,060 --> 00:26:04,960 or Verizon although it could be it 647 00:26:10,980 --> 00:26:09,070 depends and then there are these other 648 00:26:12,659 --> 00:26:10,990 larger companies called transit 649 00:26:14,159 --> 00:26:12,669 companies and these are the companies 650 00:26:19,680 --> 00:26:14,169 you don't really hear about they've got 651 00:26:21,509 --> 00:26:19,690 names like level 3 actually Verizon AT&T 652 00:26:23,970 --> 00:26:21,519 and Comcast have all gotten to some 653 00:26:25,289 --> 00:26:23,980 degree into the transit business and 654 00:26:27,450 --> 00:26:25,299 this is these are the companies that 655 00:26:30,480 --> 00:26:27,460 connect internet providers together I 656 00:26:31,950 --> 00:26:30,490 mean I'm I'm this is for those who are 657 00:26:33,330 --> 00:26:31,960 watching the show and know the the 658 00:26:34,950 --> 00:26:33,340 nitty-gritty technical details I 659 00:26:38,009 --> 00:26:34,960 understand that I'm trying to keep it at 660 00:26:40,289 --> 00:26:38,019 a pretty high level and then so when a 661 00:26:43,950 --> 00:26:40,299 company like Comcast or someone else 662 00:26:45,360 --> 00:26:43,960 wants to get online sometimes depending 663 00:26:48,810 --> 00:26:45,370 on the size of the company they will 664 00:26:49,110 --> 00:26:48,820 either pay for access or they'll do it 665 00:26:50,910 --> 00:26:49,120 in 666 00:26:52,740 --> 00:26:50,920 a settlement freeway which means that 667 00:26:54,600 --> 00:26:52,750 they'll agree with the one of these 668 00:26:57,720 --> 00:26:54,610 transit companies that we won't pay you 669 00:27:00,540 --> 00:26:57,730 to connect to our customers but also you 670 00:27:02,970 --> 00:27:00,550 don't have to pay us and so that way 671 00:27:05,930 --> 00:27:02,980 we'll just exchange the Internet traffic 672 00:27:07,920 --> 00:27:05,940 without paying each other and so 673 00:27:09,720 --> 00:27:07,930 basically what it comes down to is 674 00:27:11,880 --> 00:27:09,730 there's lots of different companies in 675 00:27:14,640 --> 00:27:11,890 the internet ecosystem and they're all 676 00:27:16,230 --> 00:27:14,650 you know Netflix and Google are part of 677 00:27:19,049 --> 00:27:16,240 paying for this infrastructure because 678 00:27:21,240 --> 00:27:19,059 when Netflix wants to connect one of its 679 00:27:24,690 --> 00:27:21,250 data centers to say an Internet provider 680 00:27:26,910 --> 00:27:24,700 network or put a caching service inside 681 00:27:29,780 --> 00:27:26,920 an internet providers network they may 682 00:27:32,220 --> 00:27:29,790 arrange a payment system they may not 683 00:27:33,840 --> 00:27:32,230 when Google wants to put up a data 684 00:27:35,490 --> 00:27:33,850 center somewhere there they're gonna 685 00:27:38,419 --> 00:27:35,500 have to pay for the infrastructure for 686 00:27:41,790 --> 00:27:38,429 that data center so it really is just 687 00:27:43,500 --> 00:27:41,800 essentially everyone is paying little 688 00:27:45,840 --> 00:27:43,510 bits here and there and it all goes into 689 00:27:51,020 --> 00:27:45,850 this Internet infrastructure now when I 690 00:27:54,150 --> 00:27:51,030 have my podcast I have to use a separate 691 00:27:57,480 --> 00:27:54,160 server like Amazon for instance I use 692 00:28:00,860 --> 00:27:57,490 Amazon 3 I think it's called and I pay 693 00:28:03,900 --> 00:28:00,870 per month I'll pay a bandwidth charge so 694 00:28:07,620 --> 00:28:03,910 that's one of the ways of paying out 695 00:28:10,230 --> 00:28:07,630 there now how how does a company like 696 00:28:13,020 --> 00:28:10,240 Netflix they must you know they must 697 00:28:15,060 --> 00:28:13,030 have to I mean is that a am I talking 698 00:28:17,910 --> 00:28:15,070 about two different things or do they 699 00:28:21,180 --> 00:28:17,920 have to pay for every time someone you 700 00:28:23,520 --> 00:28:21,190 know watches a movie so no it's it's the 701 00:28:26,220 --> 00:28:23,530 same sort of thing I mean next I mean 702 00:28:28,560 --> 00:28:26,230 now Netflix probably has some fancier 703 00:28:29,850 --> 00:28:28,570 more complicated deals but you know if 704 00:28:31,650 --> 00:28:29,860 you were to think back in the day when 705 00:28:34,169 --> 00:28:31,660 Netflix was first getting started it's 706 00:28:36,240 --> 00:28:34,179 probably a little simpler example they 707 00:28:38,810 --> 00:28:36,250 had to pay someone to get onto the 708 00:28:41,160 --> 00:28:38,820 internet the same way you and I do and 709 00:28:43,220 --> 00:28:41,170 so they would pay some company to 710 00:28:46,049 --> 00:28:43,230 connect their servers to the Internet 711 00:28:50,460 --> 00:28:46,059 and then that company it could have been 712 00:28:53,130 --> 00:28:50,470 a transit company or a large ISP would 713 00:28:54,870 --> 00:28:53,140 take the money and connect them up and 714 00:28:57,870 --> 00:28:54,880 then you know roll that money into 715 00:29:00,000 --> 00:28:57,880 paying for infrastructure upgrades now 716 00:29:02,550 --> 00:29:00,010 Netflix probably has some fancier deals 717 00:29:03,030 --> 00:29:02,560 they deal directly with because so much 718 00:29:04,950 --> 00:29:03,040 of their try 719 00:29:07,500 --> 00:29:04,960 it goes directly to home internet users 720 00:29:10,110 --> 00:29:07,510 they have you know specific deals with 721 00:29:13,320 --> 00:29:10,120 the Comcast's and the Verizon's and you 722 00:29:14,790 --> 00:29:13,330 know the the charters of the world but 723 00:29:16,560 --> 00:29:14,800 certainly if you're talking about 724 00:29:19,410 --> 00:29:16,570 someone like you or me or someone trying 725 00:29:22,110 --> 00:29:19,420 to set up a small business you know a 726 00:29:23,820 --> 00:29:22,120 startup something like that it's the 727 00:29:25,530 --> 00:29:23,830 same sort of thing you pay someone to 728 00:29:28,110 --> 00:29:25,540 get you on the internet and that person 729 00:29:30,570 --> 00:29:28,120 either connects you directly or pace or 730 00:29:33,480 --> 00:29:30,580 they pay someone else who then connects 731 00:29:35,220 --> 00:29:33,490 them directly and that's that's 732 00:29:36,360 --> 00:29:35,230 essentially how it all sort of rolls in 733 00:29:39,270 --> 00:29:36,370 now 734 00:29:41,820 --> 00:29:39,280 what about how would roll backs on the 735 00:29:44,880 --> 00:29:41,830 regulations affect the music industry I 736 00:29:47,070 --> 00:29:44,890 know that's mostly digital now would 737 00:29:49,830 --> 00:29:47,080 there be any effects to them as well I 738 00:29:52,170 --> 00:29:49,840 mean I think again one thing you could 739 00:29:54,660 --> 00:29:52,180 see is different internet providers 740 00:29:57,240 --> 00:29:54,670 treating different music services in 741 00:29:58,830 --> 00:29:57,250 different ways and so if you're an 742 00:30:01,740 --> 00:29:58,840 artist who happens to be on one music 743 00:30:04,650 --> 00:30:01,750 service but not another you know it 744 00:30:06,720 --> 00:30:04,660 could affect dramatically affect you 745 00:30:08,070 --> 00:30:06,730 know the popularity of you know where 746 00:30:10,620 --> 00:30:08,080 your music gets to it you know it's not 747 00:30:13,560 --> 00:30:10,630 gonna affect someone big it's not gonna 748 00:30:16,920 --> 00:30:13,570 affect the Rihanna's and the you know 749 00:30:20,400 --> 00:30:16,930 the the you know the the big artists of 750 00:30:22,980 --> 00:30:20,410 the world but most of the music industry 751 00:30:24,150 --> 00:30:22,990 or at least people wise it's not big 752 00:30:25,770 --> 00:30:24,160 artists there are only so many big 753 00:30:27,330 --> 00:30:25,780 artists and you know if you're trying to 754 00:30:30,450 --> 00:30:27,340 get your music out there and all of a 755 00:30:32,580 --> 00:30:30,460 sudden because the company that you were 756 00:30:35,640 --> 00:30:32,590 distributing your music through couldn't 757 00:30:38,850 --> 00:30:35,650 get that deal with Comcast or couldn't 758 00:30:40,530 --> 00:30:38,860 get that deal with Verizon and now the 759 00:30:42,060 --> 00:30:40,540 if someone is trying to listen to your 760 00:30:44,250 --> 00:30:42,070 music it's gonna count against their 761 00:30:45,480 --> 00:30:44,260 data cap and people are gonna say well 762 00:30:47,850 --> 00:30:45,490 I'm not going to use that service I'll 763 00:30:49,500 --> 00:30:47,860 go somewhere else I'll find someone that 764 00:30:52,040 --> 00:30:49,510 doesn't count against my data cap and 765 00:30:55,710 --> 00:30:52,050 we've we've already seen this t-mobile 766 00:30:56,640 --> 00:30:55,720 has this program I'm already used to 767 00:30:59,210 --> 00:30:56,650 have this program I guess they were 768 00:31:01,980 --> 00:30:59,220 phased it out by now called binge on 769 00:31:04,530 --> 00:31:01,990 which was a sort of a successor to their 770 00:31:05,850 --> 00:31:04,540 stream on program where certain music 771 00:31:08,010 --> 00:31:05,860 services wouldn't count against your 772 00:31:10,080 --> 00:31:08,020 data cap but there were plenty of 773 00:31:11,520 --> 00:31:10,090 independent music services that tried 774 00:31:13,740 --> 00:31:11,530 that went to t-mobile and said can we 775 00:31:15,900 --> 00:31:13,750 please get a be part of this so that 776 00:31:17,010 --> 00:31:15,910 people can access our music you know the 777 00:31:20,840 --> 00:31:17,020 mute the artists that 778 00:31:24,210 --> 00:31:20,850 you know are part of our collection and 779 00:31:25,980 --> 00:31:24,220 it would take t-mobile months to get 780 00:31:27,360 --> 00:31:25,990 them through the process if they did it 781 00:31:29,970 --> 00:31:27,370 all there were plenty where t-mobile 782 00:31:31,740 --> 00:31:29,980 just never got around to it and you know 783 00:31:34,890 --> 00:31:31,750 that's a scenario where again this is 784 00:31:36,360 --> 00:31:34,900 t-mobile you know theoretically they're 785 00:31:37,680 --> 00:31:36,370 say they're trying they're claiming 786 00:31:39,150 --> 00:31:37,690 they're doing something that's great for 787 00:31:39,750 --> 00:31:39,160 users because now users don't have to 788 00:31:42,150 --> 00:31:39,760 account 789 00:31:44,520 --> 00:31:42,160 music against their data caps but the 790 00:31:46,530 --> 00:31:44,530 the sort of asterisk is it's the music 791 00:31:48,390 --> 00:31:46,540 that t-mobile has chosen to prioritize 792 00:31:51,000 --> 00:31:48,400 that doesn't count against your data 793 00:31:53,040 --> 00:31:51,010 caps Wow Wow isn't that something 794 00:31:58,290 --> 00:31:53,050 so as far as the US government and 795 00:31:59,940 --> 00:31:58,300 regulations what is title - oh yeah yeah 796 00:32:01,950 --> 00:31:59,950 so this is where it gets more arcane 797 00:32:04,290 --> 00:32:01,960 important so basically uh 798 00:32:07,620 --> 00:32:04,300 let me see how I can make this slightly 799 00:32:08,670 --> 00:32:07,630 well at least not as boring so there is 800 00:32:10,350 --> 00:32:08,680 this part of the federal government 801 00:32:12,150 --> 00:32:10,360 called the Federal Communications 802 00:32:15,600 --> 00:32:12,160 Commission now traditionally that the 803 00:32:18,360 --> 00:32:15,610 FCC is the government body that 804 00:32:20,070 --> 00:32:18,370 regulates the the airwaves so they're 805 00:32:21,240 --> 00:32:20,080 the ones that decide who gets what part 806 00:32:23,730 --> 00:32:21,250 of the spectrum 807 00:32:25,290 --> 00:32:23,740 they hold auctions on spectrums so that 808 00:32:27,600 --> 00:32:25,300 if you know Verizon wants to roll out 809 00:32:29,790 --> 00:32:27,610 more cell phone service they can bid on 810 00:32:32,070 --> 00:32:29,800 it and then because this the airwaves 811 00:32:34,470 --> 00:32:32,080 are a limited commodity there's only so 812 00:32:36,720 --> 00:32:34,480 much bandwidth so much you know spectrum 813 00:32:39,480 --> 00:32:36,730 in the airwaves in the radio waves that 814 00:32:41,610 --> 00:32:39,490 people can use and so that's why we 815 00:32:43,590 --> 00:32:41,620 needed I mean you know one disagrees 816 00:32:45,270 --> 00:32:43,600 that you need some government entity to 817 00:32:46,980 --> 00:32:45,280 be able to regulate that otherwise 818 00:32:49,440 --> 00:32:46,990 you'll just get you know Verizon trying 819 00:32:51,180 --> 00:32:49,450 to transmit over AT&T trying to transmit 820 00:32:52,200 --> 00:32:51,190 over some pirate radio station or 821 00:32:56,120 --> 00:32:52,210 something like that which is not a 822 00:33:02,160 --> 00:32:56,130 scenario but more recently so the FCC 823 00:33:05,820 --> 00:33:02,170 FCC also regulates cable television and 824 00:33:08,220 --> 00:33:05,830 in broadcast television you know that's 825 00:33:13,020 --> 00:33:08,230 why that's why you know if when there 826 00:33:17,250 --> 00:33:13,030 was whatever it was the the Super Bowl 827 00:33:19,710 --> 00:33:17,260 halftime show you know issue with Janet 828 00:33:22,200 --> 00:33:19,720 Jackson several years back I knew you 829 00:33:24,980 --> 00:33:22,210 wrote complaints to the FCC you know 830 00:33:28,020 --> 00:33:24,990 because it's you know the you know the 831 00:33:30,870 --> 00:33:28,030 obscenity of whatever so but the the 832 00:33:32,760 --> 00:33:30,880 other thing the FCC does 833 00:33:34,860 --> 00:33:32,770 or has started to look into basically 834 00:33:36,030 --> 00:33:34,870 they regulate telecommunications 835 00:33:38,130 --> 00:33:36,040 providers so they also regulate 836 00:33:41,970 --> 00:33:38,140 telephone the regular old telephone 837 00:33:43,950 --> 00:33:41,980 networks and basically the FCC is 838 00:33:45,390 --> 00:33:43,960 supposed to regulate telecommunications 839 00:33:47,520 --> 00:33:45,400 providers they're supposed to be what's 840 00:33:50,340 --> 00:33:47,530 called common carriers which means that 841 00:33:52,140 --> 00:33:50,350 they accept traffic from anyone and they 842 00:33:54,210 --> 00:33:52,150 you know basically you give them the 843 00:33:55,440 --> 00:33:54,220 money they carry the traffic that's what 844 00:33:57,360 --> 00:33:55,450 a common carrier means it means they 845 00:33:59,220 --> 00:33:57,370 don't look at and say you know well we 846 00:34:01,080 --> 00:33:59,230 like you or we don't like you or we're 847 00:34:02,760 --> 00:34:01,090 giving you no special packages to these 848 00:34:04,710 --> 00:34:02,770 types of people but not those types of 849 00:34:05,760 --> 00:34:04,720 people these types of companies but not 850 00:34:07,260 --> 00:34:05,770 those types of companies 851 00:34:12,270 --> 00:34:07,270 it's basically supposed to be 852 00:34:14,810 --> 00:34:12,280 essentially neutral and so title 2 is 853 00:34:18,990 --> 00:34:14,820 the part of the Telecommunications Act 854 00:34:21,149 --> 00:34:19,000 that is regulates how the FCC is 855 00:34:22,800 --> 00:34:21,159 supposed to treat common carriers and it 856 00:34:24,899 --> 00:34:22,810 also says what common carriers are 857 00:34:27,869 --> 00:34:24,909 supposed to do it but it says you know 858 00:34:29,790 --> 00:34:27,879 if you're AT&T you can't just decide I'm 859 00:34:31,740 --> 00:34:29,800 not gonna you know carry phone calls 860 00:34:33,570 --> 00:34:31,750 that are coming in from Verizon 861 00:34:35,490 --> 00:34:33,580 customers anymore because I only want 862 00:34:37,560 --> 00:34:35,500 people on AT&T to call other people on 863 00:34:39,350 --> 00:34:37,570 AT&T you can't do that because it would 864 00:34:43,409 --> 00:34:39,360 just break the telephone network right 865 00:34:46,800 --> 00:34:43,419 and it would stand and so about two 866 00:34:48,090 --> 00:34:46,810 years ago the FCC said that well you 867 00:34:49,889 --> 00:34:48,100 know it's gotten to the point where 868 00:34:53,580 --> 00:34:49,899 we've realized that internet providers 869 00:34:56,129 --> 00:34:53,590 are the common carriers - so there they 870 00:34:57,960 --> 00:34:56,139 also count as telecommunications 871 00:35:00,180 --> 00:34:57,970 providers because they're providing a 872 00:35:03,630 --> 00:35:00,190 telecommunication service when you go to 873 00:35:06,420 --> 00:35:03,640 your internet provider you're not saying 874 00:35:07,980 --> 00:35:06,430 you know I you're basically when your 875 00:35:10,560 --> 00:35:07,990 computer talks to your internet provider 876 00:35:12,180 --> 00:35:10,570 it's saying here's some data send it to 877 00:35:14,760 --> 00:35:12,190 this destination and that's it that's 878 00:35:16,110 --> 00:35:14,770 really all your computers doing and 879 00:35:19,050 --> 00:35:16,120 that's basically what a common carrier 880 00:35:21,480 --> 00:35:19,060 does it gets some communications from 881 00:35:23,400 --> 00:35:21,490 the user of the customer and carries it 882 00:35:26,250 --> 00:35:23,410 to some final destination and then maybe 883 00:35:28,500 --> 00:35:26,260 carries some reply data back it used to 884 00:35:29,970 --> 00:35:28,510 be that with you know hundred years ago 885 00:35:31,980 --> 00:35:29,980 that was just phone calls well now it's 886 00:35:34,500 --> 00:35:31,990 phone calls and data and an internet 887 00:35:36,630 --> 00:35:34,510 traffic so that's basically when you 888 00:35:39,540 --> 00:35:36,640 hear people talking about title 2 versus 889 00:35:41,910 --> 00:35:39,550 title 1 title 1 regulates what's called 890 00:35:43,350 --> 00:35:41,920 information services so this if you 891 00:35:44,700 --> 00:35:43,360 think about it you know information 892 00:35:47,070 --> 00:35:44,710 services are more 893 00:35:49,680 --> 00:35:47,080 like what the bulletin board systems 894 00:35:52,950 --> 00:35:49,690 that people dialed into 20 years of God 895 00:35:55,520 --> 00:35:52,960 25 years ago were back and you know 896 00:35:58,680 --> 00:35:55,530 before the web even existed 897 00:36:00,960 --> 00:35:58,690 you know AOL or prodigy back when they 898 00:36:03,329 --> 00:36:00,970 were you know brand-new in the mid 90s 899 00:36:06,900 --> 00:36:03,339 probably counted as information systems 900 00:36:08,640 --> 00:36:06,910 because they they didn't just their 901 00:36:11,820 --> 00:36:08,650 selling points essentially where look we 902 00:36:14,160 --> 00:36:11,830 have all this content that is only for 903 00:36:15,570 --> 00:36:14,170 subscribers to our network only for AOL 904 00:36:17,670 --> 00:36:15,580 subscribes if you remember back in the 905 00:36:19,530 --> 00:36:17,680 day you know if you wanted to get on AOL 906 00:36:22,800 --> 00:36:19,540 chat rooms or you wanted to look at a oh 907 00:36:24,839 --> 00:36:22,810 you know AOL would have articles you 908 00:36:26,670 --> 00:36:24,849 know certain features games that you 909 00:36:28,800 --> 00:36:26,680 could play only if you subscribe to a o 910 00:36:31,230 --> 00:36:28,810 L if you subscribe to copy serve you 911 00:36:34,859 --> 00:36:31,240 couldn't get to that sort of stuff and 912 00:36:36,780 --> 00:36:34,869 that's essentially what happened was 913 00:36:39,780 --> 00:36:36,790 because that's what internet providers 914 00:36:41,970 --> 00:36:39,790 evolved out of they were for a very long 915 00:36:44,070 --> 00:36:41,980 time regulated as these information 916 00:36:45,060 --> 00:36:44,080 services because they were essentially 917 00:36:47,250 --> 00:36:45,070 in those service of providing 918 00:36:48,810 --> 00:36:47,260 information to users but then when the 919 00:36:51,329 --> 00:36:48,820 internet came around and web you know 920 00:36:53,430 --> 00:36:51,339 the web became big and people stopped 921 00:36:55,890 --> 00:36:53,440 using their internet providers stuff I 922 00:36:57,349 --> 00:36:55,900 mean what internet provider do you know 923 00:36:59,550 --> 00:36:57,359 of that it's still providing you know 924 00:37:02,099 --> 00:36:59,560 specific functionality you're you know 925 00:37:04,200 --> 00:37:02,109 chat rooms that people really use on a 926 00:37:06,240 --> 00:37:04,210 wide scale it's it's just not how the 927 00:37:08,099 --> 00:37:06,250 internet works anymore now your internet 928 00:37:10,800 --> 00:37:08,109 provider is someone you pay to get to 929 00:37:13,410 --> 00:37:10,810 the rest of the Internet right right so 930 00:37:17,280 --> 00:37:13,420 that's what title 2 is about oh okay now 931 00:37:20,460 --> 00:37:17,290 we have a chatroom question this person 932 00:37:24,329 --> 00:37:20,470 wants to know will the FCC ever regulate 933 00:37:27,570 --> 00:37:24,339 YouTube at one point so the chances of 934 00:37:29,820 --> 00:37:27,580 that are pretty unlikely certainly 935 00:37:30,480 --> 00:37:29,830 that's the sort of thing that if it got 936 00:37:33,359 --> 00:37:30,490 to that point 937 00:37:35,730 --> 00:37:33,369 that's a line the e FF would draw on the 938 00:37:38,430 --> 00:37:35,740 sand and say no no no no it's one thing 939 00:37:39,450 --> 00:37:38,440 to be talking about you know how you 940 00:37:42,390 --> 00:37:39,460 know because there isn't a lot of 941 00:37:44,220 --> 00:37:42,400 customer choice how people can get 942 00:37:45,270 --> 00:37:44,230 online in the first place and make sure 943 00:37:48,060 --> 00:37:45,280 they're free to do what they want online 944 00:37:50,700 --> 00:37:48,070 but FCC is not likely to regulate 945 00:37:53,820 --> 00:37:50,710 YouTube it's they'd have a hard time 946 00:37:58,560 --> 00:37:53,830 justifying that as within the scope of 947 00:38:01,260 --> 00:37:58,570 their authority the you know the 948 00:38:03,810 --> 00:38:01,270 you might see something I mean yeah I 949 00:38:06,480 --> 00:38:03,820 can't think of another scenario where 950 00:38:09,630 --> 00:38:06,490 the FCC would say you know really in any 951 00:38:11,790 --> 00:38:09,640 successful way be able to say we're 952 00:38:14,250 --> 00:38:11,800 gonna tell YouTube how to operate you 953 00:38:16,470 --> 00:38:14,260 know it's pretty unlikely slippery slope 954 00:38:18,870 --> 00:38:16,480 and then there's then what about V Moe 955 00:38:21,120 --> 00:38:18,880 and all those other you know it's 956 00:38:22,140 --> 00:38:21,130 exactly and that's that's a big that's a 957 00:38:23,790 --> 00:38:22,150 big difference to I think which is 958 00:38:25,560 --> 00:38:23,800 important to remember is that as we talk 959 00:38:27,630 --> 00:38:25,570 about four internet service you 960 00:38:29,220 --> 00:38:27,640 basically have one maybe two choices if 961 00:38:31,380 --> 00:38:29,230 I'm going online and I want to post a 962 00:38:35,640 --> 00:38:31,390 video somewhere I can post it on YouTube 963 00:38:37,620 --> 00:38:35,650 I can post it on Vimeo I can post it on 964 00:38:40,290 --> 00:38:37,630 Facebook directly I can host it myself 965 00:38:42,240 --> 00:38:40,300 on my own website there's a bajillion 966 00:38:43,800 --> 00:38:42,250 different you know ways that I can get 967 00:38:46,200 --> 00:38:43,810 my video out there mm-hmm 968 00:38:47,730 --> 00:38:46,210 but only one you know company that I can 969 00:38:49,200 --> 00:38:47,740 sign up with to get it to actually 970 00:38:52,440 --> 00:38:49,210 upload onto the Internet in the first 971 00:38:54,840 --> 00:38:52,450 place and so it's that it's that sort of 972 00:38:56,610 --> 00:38:54,850 bottleneck that gatekeeper effect that's 973 00:38:58,620 --> 00:38:56,620 what we're really worried about when it 974 00:39:03,390 --> 00:38:58,630 comes to net neutrality all right say 975 00:39:06,810 --> 00:39:03,400 that this the regulations stay rolled 976 00:39:09,960 --> 00:39:06,820 back that they don't and I want to talk 977 00:39:14,100 --> 00:39:09,970 about them and why there is a potential 978 00:39:17,100 --> 00:39:14,110 change but just say that they are kept 979 00:39:18,810 --> 00:39:17,110 the way they are also I should clarify 980 00:39:21,060 --> 00:39:18,820 right now they are in place right now 981 00:39:23,160 --> 00:39:21,070 right now the net neutrality regulations 982 00:39:25,980 --> 00:39:23,170 are in place what's happening is the 983 00:39:29,240 --> 00:39:25,990 current head of the FCC has a proposal 984 00:39:31,410 --> 00:39:29,250 to roll them back I Bennett he's very 985 00:39:33,150 --> 00:39:31,420 strongly committed to rolling them back 986 00:39:36,330 --> 00:39:33,160 so that's the danger of them and is 987 00:39:39,870 --> 00:39:36,340 there anything coming up that may be 988 00:39:41,520 --> 00:39:39,880 voted on so the so they haven't 989 00:39:43,620 --> 00:39:41,530 announced a vote yet so what the way 990 00:39:45,780 --> 00:39:43,630 it's again you get into this arcane 991 00:39:49,200 --> 00:39:45,790 process of how the federal government 992 00:39:50,760 --> 00:39:49,210 works so they've put out the FCC has put 993 00:39:52,800 --> 00:39:50,770 out what's called a notice of proposed 994 00:39:54,570 --> 00:39:52,810 rule baking which is a fancy way of 995 00:39:55,620 --> 00:39:54,580 saying they've put out there what they 996 00:39:57,090 --> 00:39:55,630 think they want to do and they're 997 00:39:59,280 --> 00:39:57,100 required to do this by law they have to 998 00:40:01,950 --> 00:39:59,290 put out basically here's what we think 999 00:40:05,010 --> 00:40:01,960 we want to do and give people the chance 1000 00:40:06,810 --> 00:40:05,020 to comment and then after that they can 1001 00:40:08,790 --> 00:40:06,820 either decide to move forward or decide 1002 00:40:10,440 --> 00:40:08,800 to adjust what they want to do or decide 1003 00:40:12,090 --> 00:40:10,450 you know oh god this was a terrible idea 1004 00:40:13,830 --> 00:40:12,100 in the first place so 1005 00:40:15,990 --> 00:40:13,840 they put that out and they basically 1006 00:40:18,090 --> 00:40:16,000 said our plan is to roll back these 1007 00:40:22,740 --> 00:40:18,100 rules and have companies commit to 1008 00:40:25,860 --> 00:40:22,750 voluntary pledges that they promise you 1009 00:40:27,840 --> 00:40:25,870 know cross my heart and hope to die 1010 00:40:31,200 --> 00:40:27,850 you know swear on my mother's grave that 1011 00:40:32,910 --> 00:40:31,210 we won't you know start interfering with 1012 00:40:35,250 --> 00:40:32,920 customers traffic I mean the problem is 1013 00:40:36,600 --> 00:40:35,260 they've already done it in the past so 1014 00:40:39,450 --> 00:40:36,610 there's no reason to believe them and 1015 00:40:44,400 --> 00:40:39,460 also if they decide to break the promise 1016 00:40:46,590 --> 00:40:44,410 there's no enforcement mechanism now the 1017 00:40:48,300 --> 00:40:46,600 reply period has finished for that the 1018 00:40:51,870 --> 00:40:48,310 comment period is finished for that so 1019 00:40:54,900 --> 00:40:51,880 the FCC is gotten I want to say it's now 1020 00:40:56,490 --> 00:40:54,910 in like the 8 million plus range of 1021 00:41:00,360 --> 00:40:56,500 comments although even that number may 1022 00:41:02,550 --> 00:41:00,370 not be quite high enough and now the 1023 00:41:05,070 --> 00:41:02,560 ball is essentially in the FCC's Court 1024 00:41:08,990 --> 00:41:05,080 the FCC so it's there's a the Commission 1025 00:41:11,400 --> 00:41:09,000 is made up of five commissioners it's 1026 00:41:14,090 --> 00:41:11,410 three it's traditionally three of 1027 00:41:17,400 --> 00:41:14,100 whatever party is in power and Congress 1028 00:41:19,770 --> 00:41:17,410 or sorry and in the White House I should 1029 00:41:21,300 --> 00:41:19,780 say and two of whatever party is not in 1030 00:41:24,270 --> 00:41:21,310 power so there's currently three 1031 00:41:25,650 --> 00:41:24,280 Republicans and two Democrats I don't 1032 00:41:27,810 --> 00:41:25,660 know why this is a partisan issue but 1033 00:41:29,880 --> 00:41:27,820 for some reason the push to rollback and 1034 00:41:33,360 --> 00:41:29,890 neutrality has been spearheaded by 1035 00:41:35,400 --> 00:41:33,370 Republicans I feel like you know these 1036 00:41:37,170 --> 00:41:35,410 issues affect people of either party 1037 00:41:40,380 --> 00:41:37,180 equally so I don't understand it but 1038 00:41:44,640 --> 00:41:40,390 that's the way it's it's it has shaken 1039 00:41:47,070 --> 00:41:44,650 out so it was a Republican FCC that has 1040 00:41:49,110 --> 00:41:47,080 been pushing this and they haven't 1041 00:41:51,060 --> 00:41:49,120 scheduled a vote yet but it could happen 1042 00:41:53,760 --> 00:41:51,070 they could schedule a vote at any time 1043 00:41:56,490 --> 00:41:53,770 and it would be a vote in the FCC so 1044 00:41:58,920 --> 00:41:56,500 this is a situation where it's out of 1045 00:42:01,080 --> 00:41:58,930 Congress's hands unless Congress were to 1046 00:42:04,020 --> 00:42:01,090 go ahead and pass a new law that said 1047 00:42:06,750 --> 00:42:04,030 actually FCC this is the new law that 1048 00:42:08,850 --> 00:42:06,760 says this is what you must do and the 1049 00:42:13,440 --> 00:42:08,860 chances of that happening are pretty low 1050 00:42:16,350 --> 00:42:13,450 unfortunately now okay so what about the 1051 00:42:19,590 --> 00:42:16,360 future though I mean there should be no 1052 00:42:22,260 --> 00:42:19,600 unrest and watching what happens with 1053 00:42:25,280 --> 00:42:22,270 net neutrality from administration to 1054 00:42:29,120 --> 00:42:25,290 administration that's that's 1055 00:42:30,980 --> 00:42:29,130 the the disturbing part in some sense is 1056 00:42:33,710 --> 00:42:30,990 that so we had these net neutrality 1057 00:42:36,350 --> 00:42:33,720 regulations they were passed under the 1058 00:42:38,000 --> 00:42:36,360 Obama administration so they're passed 1059 00:42:39,440 --> 00:42:38,010 under a democratic administration now 1060 00:42:41,510 --> 00:42:39,450 there's a Republican in power in the 1061 00:42:43,760 --> 00:42:41,520 White House and so now it seems like 1062 00:42:45,830 --> 00:42:43,770 they're gonna get repealed but it seems 1063 00:42:47,030 --> 00:42:45,840 kind of silly for this to bounce every 1064 00:42:49,520 --> 00:42:47,040 four eight years 1065 00:42:51,110 --> 00:42:49,530 you know and companies I mean even the 1066 00:42:53,150 --> 00:42:51,120 internet providers as much as they want 1067 00:42:54,650 --> 00:42:53,160 to roll back net neutrality they're also 1068 00:42:56,210 --> 00:42:54,660 not gonna want to play this game where 1069 00:42:57,530 --> 00:42:56,220 every four years they have to or every 1070 00:42:59,540 --> 00:42:57,540 eight years depending on you know 1071 00:43:02,690 --> 00:42:59,550 re-elections they have to do this dance 1072 00:43:05,840 --> 00:43:02,700 to try angry net neutrality rollback or 1073 00:43:08,000 --> 00:43:05,850 fight it off from being you know put in 1074 00:43:12,590 --> 00:43:08,010 place again I mean it's it's really not 1075 00:43:16,370 --> 00:43:12,600 the right way to run the country and so 1076 00:43:18,460 --> 00:43:16,380 you know it's it's a scenario where you 1077 00:43:21,560 --> 00:43:18,470 know in the end to be perfectly honest 1078 00:43:23,780 --> 00:43:21,570 Congress writing you know covering this 1079 00:43:28,700 --> 00:43:23,790 in law instead of leaving it to the the 1080 00:43:30,440 --> 00:43:28,710 you know not whim but the the choice of 1081 00:43:32,060 --> 00:43:30,450 whoever's in the White House isn't the 1082 00:43:34,070 --> 00:43:32,070 right way to do it really Congress 1083 00:43:35,540 --> 00:43:34,080 should pass a law it's just it's so 1084 00:43:38,000 --> 00:43:35,550 difficult for Congress to do anything 1085 00:43:39,770 --> 00:43:38,010 day these days given the the partisan 1086 00:43:41,150 --> 00:43:39,780 divides in Washington mmm-hmm then it 1087 00:43:42,920 --> 00:43:41,160 just doesn't seem like it's gonna happen 1088 00:43:44,360 --> 00:43:42,930 but you know in a perfect world that's 1089 00:43:46,100 --> 00:43:44,370 what we would want we what about 1090 00:43:48,200 --> 00:43:46,110 Congress to say net neutrality is the 1091 00:43:51,200 --> 00:43:48,210 law of the land these are the you know 1092 00:43:52,160 --> 00:43:51,210 the you know simple basic rules don't 1093 00:43:55,340 --> 00:43:52,170 block traffic 1094 00:43:58,220 --> 00:43:55,350 don't throttle traffic don't interfere 1095 00:44:00,320 --> 00:43:58,230 with traffic here are the privacy rules 1096 00:44:02,330 --> 00:44:00,330 associated with that and you know and 1097 00:44:03,470 --> 00:44:02,340 that's it and after that run your ISP 1098 00:44:04,730 --> 00:44:03,480 however you want we're not gonna 1099 00:44:07,280 --> 00:44:04,740 regulate you we're not gonna you know 1100 00:44:08,960 --> 00:44:07,290 set prices or anything like that it's 1101 00:44:12,050 --> 00:44:08,970 just you know don't block don't throttle 1102 00:44:15,250 --> 00:44:12,060 simple rules and go forward 1103 00:44:19,340 --> 00:44:15,260 don't treat don't treat data differently 1104 00:44:23,000 --> 00:44:19,350 but that's yeah it's anybody's guess how 1105 00:44:25,430 --> 00:44:23,010 this will end up so what is in it for 1106 00:44:28,340 --> 00:44:25,440 them why are they trying to change 1107 00:44:32,210 --> 00:44:28,350 things so the FCC is trying to change 1108 00:44:36,200 --> 00:44:32,220 things because the current chair of the 1109 00:44:38,810 --> 00:44:36,210 FCC was a former lawyer for Verizon and 1110 00:44:41,540 --> 00:44:38,820 I guess that's I mean on for 1111 00:44:43,640 --> 00:44:41,550 that's how well there's a lot of you 1112 00:44:46,100 --> 00:44:43,650 know actually EF F for a long time was 1113 00:44:48,800 --> 00:44:46,110 very much against so-so 1114 00:44:50,720 --> 00:44:48,810 against the FCC trying to enforce a net 1115 00:44:53,090 --> 00:44:50,730 neutrality because we were worried that 1116 00:44:55,610 --> 00:44:53,100 the FCC is essentially what you what you 1117 00:44:57,110 --> 00:44:55,620 call a captured agency so what that for 1118 00:44:59,270 --> 00:44:57,120 those who aren't you know don't know the 1119 00:45:02,720 --> 00:44:59,280 the political jargon it basically means 1120 00:45:04,730 --> 00:45:02,730 a federal agency that is run by a 1121 00:45:07,670 --> 00:45:04,740 revolving door people from the industry 1122 00:45:09,320 --> 00:45:07,680 it's supposed to regulate and that's 1123 00:45:10,670 --> 00:45:09,330 essentially how the FCC has been now 1124 00:45:12,260 --> 00:45:10,680 sometimes that's useful because the 1125 00:45:13,730 --> 00:45:12,270 people in industry know what's going on 1126 00:45:16,370 --> 00:45:13,740 and so they know what types of 1127 00:45:17,870 --> 00:45:16,380 regulations do and don't make sense you 1128 00:45:19,970 --> 00:45:17,880 know if they're going to be regulating 1129 00:45:21,500 --> 00:45:19,980 how the spectrum works I sure hope they 1130 00:45:23,540 --> 00:45:21,510 know what the different companies want 1131 00:45:25,820 --> 00:45:23,550 to do with the spectrum but on the other 1132 00:45:27,920 --> 00:45:25,830 hand you also get scenarios where you 1133 00:45:30,310 --> 00:45:27,930 get Verizon former Verizon lobbyists 1134 00:45:34,010 --> 00:45:30,320 former you know cable industry lobbyists 1135 00:45:37,100 --> 00:45:34,020 and so we said you know we can't trust 1136 00:45:39,380 --> 00:45:37,110 the FCC eventually it got to the point 1137 00:45:42,140 --> 00:45:39,390 where just there was so little market 1138 00:45:43,850 --> 00:45:42,150 power in terms of customers being able 1139 00:45:46,160 --> 00:45:43,860 to choose different internet providers 1140 00:45:49,610 --> 00:45:46,170 that we said look it's getting bad and 1141 00:45:52,010 --> 00:45:49,620 we need something and the FCC is the 1142 00:45:54,230 --> 00:45:52,020 least bad option and it's still sort of 1143 00:45:56,840 --> 00:45:54,240 is that's why we want Congress to go 1144 00:45:59,570 --> 00:45:56,850 forward with something you know but 1145 00:46:03,080 --> 00:45:59,580 essentially it's a captured agency and 1146 00:46:04,580 --> 00:46:03,090 there's big business that is pressuring 1147 00:46:06,650 --> 00:46:04,590 I mean it's like you said you follow the 1148 00:46:09,560 --> 00:46:06,660 money it all goes back to the money and 1149 00:46:12,290 --> 00:46:09,570 these big businesses want to extract as 1150 00:46:14,150 --> 00:46:12,300 much money as possible now my son and I 1151 00:46:17,630 --> 00:46:14,160 were talking about this quite a few 1152 00:46:21,650 --> 00:46:17,640 months ago and he said that before the 1153 00:46:24,320 --> 00:46:21,660 regulations that Obama administration 1154 00:46:25,970 --> 00:46:24,330 put in place there was a good example of 1155 00:46:29,570 --> 00:46:25,980 what can happen do you know what he's 1156 00:46:32,690 --> 00:46:29,580 talking about I mean there's a bunch of 1157 00:46:34,970 --> 00:46:32,700 example so at one point Comcast was 1158 00:46:36,500 --> 00:46:34,980 interfering with BitTorrent that was in 1159 00:46:39,020 --> 00:46:36,510 some sense what kicked off this whole 1160 00:46:40,730 --> 00:46:39,030 thing so BitTorrent does you know if 1161 00:46:43,640 --> 00:46:40,740 those who don't know it's a protocol for 1162 00:46:45,440 --> 00:46:43,650 peer-to-peer downloading it does have a 1163 00:46:48,260 --> 00:46:45,450 reputation for being used a lot for 1164 00:46:49,910 --> 00:46:48,270 copyright infringement but for tech 1165 00:46:52,310 --> 00:46:49,920 nerds like me it's also the way that if 1166 00:46:52,640 --> 00:46:52,320 I want to get a new Linux distribution 1167 00:46:54,380 --> 00:46:52,650 the new 1168 00:46:56,170 --> 00:46:54,390 operating system for my computer that's 1169 00:47:00,410 --> 00:46:56,180 how i download it is through BitTorrent 1170 00:47:02,809 --> 00:47:00,420 if I want to share you know public 1171 00:47:08,150 --> 00:47:02,819 domain material you can share it through 1172 00:47:10,760 --> 00:47:08,160 BitTorrent and so Comcast was basically 1173 00:47:12,829 --> 00:47:10,770 just basically resetting people's 1174 00:47:15,170 --> 00:47:12,839 BitTorrent connections because they 1175 00:47:17,210 --> 00:47:15,180 thought that that was a good way to 1176 00:47:18,859 --> 00:47:17,220 manage their network and deal with 1177 00:47:20,599 --> 00:47:18,869 congestion and sort of instead of 1178 00:47:23,000 --> 00:47:20,609 actually dealing with congestion by 1179 00:47:24,740 --> 00:47:23,010 either upgrading with our network or not 1180 00:47:27,529 --> 00:47:24,750 over promising the bandwidth that they 1181 00:47:29,120 --> 00:47:27,539 could deliver to people or making sure 1182 00:47:30,620 --> 00:47:29,130 that people got the bandwidth each 1183 00:47:33,019 --> 00:47:30,630 individual got the bandwidth that they 1184 00:47:34,819 --> 00:47:33,029 were allocated and so that was an 1185 00:47:36,710 --> 00:47:34,829 example where you know people were doing 1186 00:47:38,510 --> 00:47:36,720 perfectly legal legitimate things you 1187 00:47:41,420 --> 00:47:38,520 know I'm trying to download a new copy 1188 00:47:43,670 --> 00:47:41,430 of some open source software and I can't 1189 00:47:47,059 --> 00:47:43,680 because Comcast is interfering because 1190 00:47:50,269 --> 00:47:47,069 of the protocol that I'm using we've 1191 00:47:51,950 --> 00:47:50,279 seen other examples so it's hard me so 1192 00:47:54,140 --> 00:47:51,960 you're saying you're trying to do 1193 00:47:57,170 --> 00:47:54,150 something that's perfectly legal but 1194 00:48:00,200 --> 00:47:57,180 you're using something that is also used 1195 00:48:02,210 --> 00:48:00,210 for something illegal like copyright 1196 00:48:06,769 --> 00:48:02,220 infringement but you can't access it 1197 00:48:08,510 --> 00:48:06,779 because of that well and even that it 1198 00:48:09,980 --> 00:48:08,520 wasn't the Comcast was doing it because 1199 00:48:12,049 --> 00:48:09,990 of copyright infringement they were 1200 00:48:14,420 --> 00:48:12,059 doing it because because at the time 1201 00:48:16,789 --> 00:48:14,430 BitTorrent was taking up a lot of the 1202 00:48:18,470 --> 00:48:16,799 bandwidth of their network I see and 1203 00:48:20,269 --> 00:48:18,480 they thought that was the way to do it 1204 00:48:22,069 --> 00:48:20,279 not to actually you know make sure that 1205 00:48:24,650 --> 00:48:22,079 individual users got the bandwidth they 1206 00:48:26,210 --> 00:48:24,660 were allocated they thought oh well if 1207 00:48:28,549 --> 00:48:26,220 someone using BitTorrent that just means 1208 00:48:30,940 --> 00:48:28,559 they're a data hog and so poof we're 1209 00:48:33,710 --> 00:48:30,950 gonna mess with BitTorrent I get it that 1210 00:48:36,349 --> 00:48:33,720 was essentially their rationale and you 1211 00:48:38,359 --> 00:48:36,359 know it's it's a little little flaky 1212 00:48:42,140 --> 00:48:38,369 there are other examples at one point 1213 00:48:44,870 --> 00:48:42,150 there was a ISP in North Carolina that 1214 00:48:48,170 --> 00:48:44,880 started blocking VoIP calls voice over 1215 00:48:51,079 --> 00:48:48,180 Internet Protocol so if you used 1216 00:48:52,609 --> 00:48:51,089 something like Skype at the time for 1217 00:48:56,630 --> 00:48:52,619 your home phone system because you 1218 00:48:59,960 --> 00:48:56,640 didn't want to pay you just couldn't do 1219 00:49:03,490 --> 00:48:59,970 it they just block you there's been 1220 00:49:06,410 --> 00:49:03,500 examples where what's another good one 1221 00:49:08,329 --> 00:49:06,420 for a while AT&T wouldn't 1222 00:49:12,440 --> 00:49:08,339 allow people to use FaceTime on their 1223 00:49:14,299 --> 00:49:12,450 iPhones but you know other networks had 1224 00:49:18,230 --> 00:49:14,309 no problems with it so it clearly wasn't 1225 00:49:20,230 --> 00:49:18,240 a technical issue theirs let me see what 1226 00:49:23,870 --> 00:49:20,240 else have we got 1227 00:49:26,329 --> 00:49:23,880 in the past companies have hijacked when 1228 00:49:28,370 --> 00:49:26,339 people did searches online so if you 1229 00:49:29,900 --> 00:49:28,380 were in your browser and you just and 1230 00:49:33,410 --> 00:49:29,910 you know in the URL bar typed in a 1231 00:49:36,289 --> 00:49:33,420 search like the everything show they 1232 00:49:39,710 --> 00:49:36,299 might hijack that search and say well 1233 00:49:42,440 --> 00:49:39,720 someone some company has paid us to when 1234 00:49:47,150 --> 00:49:42,450 we see these queries go directly to a 1235 00:49:50,059 --> 00:49:47,160 certain web page so a good example is if 1236 00:49:51,680 --> 00:49:50,069 you were you know actually a better 1237 00:49:54,260 --> 00:49:51,690 example is you know you're looking up 1238 00:49:55,520 --> 00:49:54,270 the local Apple Festival at your you 1239 00:49:58,190 --> 00:49:55,530 know County Fair or something like that 1240 00:50:00,620 --> 00:49:58,200 so you type in Apple into your search 1241 00:50:03,410 --> 00:50:00,630 browser into your search bar if that if 1242 00:50:05,450 --> 00:50:03,420 Apple had paid your ISP to redirect all 1243 00:50:07,250 --> 00:50:05,460 searches for Apple directly to the Apple 1244 00:50:08,660 --> 00:50:07,260 website you wouldn't even see the search 1245 00:50:10,400 --> 00:50:08,670 results you'd go directly there and 1246 00:50:14,319 --> 00:50:10,410 you'd be like wait a second wow I was 1247 00:50:18,349 --> 00:50:14,329 searching not trying to go to apple.com 1248 00:50:18,770 --> 00:50:18,359 you know things like that I mean I could 1249 00:50:21,740 --> 00:50:18,780 go on 1250 00:50:24,440 --> 00:50:21,750 there's plenty more examples Krypton 1251 00:50:26,900 --> 00:50:24,450 yeah it's bad enough as it is I do a lot 1252 00:50:28,099 --> 00:50:26,910 of research and fine arts and antiques 1253 00:50:29,930 --> 00:50:28,109 and a lot of times I'm trying to 1254 00:50:33,289 --> 00:50:29,940 research something and if someone's like 1255 00:50:35,000 --> 00:50:33,299 popular like an artist name also matches 1256 00:50:37,670 --> 00:50:35,010 like a celebrity's name forget it you'll 1257 00:50:39,500 --> 00:50:37,680 never find out any information at least 1258 00:50:40,970 --> 00:50:39,510 there you can look at the search results 1259 00:50:42,710 --> 00:50:40,980 right I mean this was we don't even get 1260 00:50:47,260 --> 00:50:42,720 to see the search results right right 1261 00:50:50,690 --> 00:50:47,270 now how does net neutrality as it stand 1262 00:50:55,520 --> 00:50:50,700 does it help our privacy the way it is 1263 00:50:58,640 --> 00:50:55,530 so sort of so as part of the 1264 00:51:02,420 --> 00:50:58,650 reclassification of internet providers 1265 00:51:04,160 --> 00:51:02,430 as common carriers another thing common 1266 00:51:06,289 --> 00:51:04,170 carriers have to do is their specific 1267 00:51:09,170 --> 00:51:06,299 privacy rules so for example your 1268 00:51:11,089 --> 00:51:09,180 telephone provider can't you know sell 1269 00:51:14,240 --> 00:51:11,099 what numbers you've been calling to 1270 00:51:17,120 --> 00:51:14,250 whoever wants to you know see them it's 1271 00:51:19,490 --> 00:51:17,130 just that's a common sense privacy thing 1272 00:51:20,210 --> 00:51:19,500 so when they when internet providers got 1273 00:51:22,940 --> 00:51:20,220 classified 1274 00:51:24,230 --> 00:51:22,950 common carriers that also meant that 1275 00:51:25,820 --> 00:51:24,240 there were going to be some privacy 1276 00:51:27,710 --> 00:51:25,830 rules that we're going to be imposed 1277 00:51:29,570 --> 00:51:27,720 upon them that they couldn't sell your 1278 00:51:32,300 --> 00:51:29,580 data your browsing history they couldn't 1279 00:51:35,150 --> 00:51:32,310 use it to market advertisements at you 1280 00:51:37,790 --> 00:51:35,160 that sort of thing now some of your 1281 00:51:39,500 --> 00:51:37,800 listeners may remember that earlier this 1282 00:51:44,089 --> 00:51:39,510 year in the beginning probably I guess 1283 00:51:47,420 --> 00:51:44,099 it was March April of 2017 the US 1284 00:51:49,849 --> 00:51:47,430 Congress ended up blocking these privacy 1285 00:51:52,370 --> 00:51:49,859 rules from going into effect so the FCC 1286 00:51:54,260 --> 00:51:52,380 had written some privacy rules that came 1287 00:51:55,670 --> 00:51:54,270 along with this reclassification that 1288 00:51:59,780 --> 00:51:55,680 was necessary to get a net neutrality 1289 00:52:01,130 --> 00:51:59,790 but Congress said uh no actually I think 1290 00:52:03,560 --> 00:52:01,140 that companies can do whatever they want 1291 00:52:04,790 --> 00:52:03,570 with your data or sorry internet 1292 00:52:06,320 --> 00:52:04,800 providers can do whatever they want with 1293 00:52:07,670 --> 00:52:06,330 your data so you don't get these privacy 1294 00:52:12,560 --> 00:52:07,680 protections when it comes to your 1295 00:52:13,880 --> 00:52:12,570 internet browser so in that sense we 1296 00:52:15,530 --> 00:52:13,890 could have had better privacy 1297 00:52:17,390 --> 00:52:15,540 protections as sort of a side effect of 1298 00:52:19,160 --> 00:52:17,400 getting net neutrality enshrined in' 1299 00:52:21,290 --> 00:52:19,170 into the federal regulations but we 1300 00:52:24,410 --> 00:52:21,300 didn't and again for some reason it 1301 00:52:27,079 --> 00:52:24,420 became a partisan issue it was entirely 1302 00:52:28,640 --> 00:52:27,089 a republican it was an entirely party 1303 00:52:30,980 --> 00:52:28,650 line vote with the exception of a few 1304 00:52:32,480 --> 00:52:30,990 Republicans in the House who voted 1305 00:52:34,849 --> 00:52:32,490 against it but all the Republican 1306 00:52:37,220 --> 00:52:34,859 senators voted to kill these privacy 1307 00:52:39,859 --> 00:52:37,230 rules all the Democratic senators voted 1308 00:52:41,510 --> 00:52:39,869 to keep them again for reasons I don't 1309 00:52:45,050 --> 00:52:41,520 understand I imagine both Republicans 1310 00:52:47,720 --> 00:52:45,060 and Democrats like privacy um you know 1311 00:52:49,579 --> 00:52:47,730 it seems like a it's money again I'm 1312 00:52:54,079 --> 00:52:49,589 sure but I guess that's what it comes 1313 00:52:57,950 --> 00:52:54,089 down to um so ya know so if someone like 1314 00:53:00,950 --> 00:52:57,960 myself or yourself wants to have privacy 1315 00:53:04,339 --> 00:53:00,960 from the internet you know your 1316 00:53:06,589 --> 00:53:04,349 interpret internet provider how does how 1317 00:53:08,359 --> 00:53:06,599 do you go about that doing that so 1318 00:53:11,890 --> 00:53:08,369 there's a couple ways I mean there's 1319 00:53:14,450 --> 00:53:11,900 various tools you can use online I mean 1320 00:53:16,070 --> 00:53:14,460 EFS actually makes a couple of software 1321 00:53:19,550 --> 00:53:16,080 tools they're browser extensions that 1322 00:53:21,829 --> 00:53:19,560 you can install HTTPS Everywhere and 1323 00:53:24,079 --> 00:53:21,839 privacy badger if you just go to the EFS 1324 00:53:26,300 --> 00:53:24,089 org website and look up in the the top 1325 00:53:29,030 --> 00:53:26,310 right there's a little Tools menu that 1326 00:53:30,800 --> 00:53:29,040 you can look at you can use a VPN a 1327 00:53:32,720 --> 00:53:30,810 virtual private network they trick there 1328 00:53:33,829 --> 00:53:32,730 though is you're basically just shifting 1329 00:53:37,130 --> 00:53:33,839 the trust from your intern 1330 00:53:38,950 --> 00:53:37,140 provider to the VPN provider so that 1331 00:53:41,660 --> 00:53:38,960 just depends on who you trust more 1332 00:53:43,279 --> 00:53:41,670 certainly if your VPN provider is free I 1333 00:53:46,819 --> 00:53:43,289 don't think you should be generally 1334 00:53:48,680 --> 00:53:46,829 speaking that doesn't if the if it's 1335 00:53:50,539 --> 00:53:48,690 free they're making money somehow and 1336 00:53:54,049 --> 00:53:50,549 it's probably by mining the data that 1337 00:53:56,390 --> 00:53:54,059 goes through the VPN the the biggest 1338 00:53:58,789 --> 00:53:56,400 thing is that although the rules got 1339 00:54:00,920 --> 00:53:58,799 blocked at the federal level several 1340 00:54:03,170 --> 00:54:00,930 states have tried to pass basically the 1341 00:54:05,959 --> 00:54:03,180 exact same rules on the state level and 1342 00:54:09,890 --> 00:54:05,969 so one thing you could do is we've seen 1343 00:54:12,049 --> 00:54:09,900 this in gosh I mean I want to save I 1344 00:54:13,819 --> 00:54:12,059 mean California for sure I think 1345 00:54:17,329 --> 00:54:13,829 something came up in New York New Jersey 1346 00:54:20,900 --> 00:54:17,339 but also again but it's both blue states 1347 00:54:22,940 --> 00:54:20,910 and red states and Idaho Montana 1348 00:54:25,819 --> 00:54:22,950 I think Iowa but I'd have to 1349 00:54:27,620 --> 00:54:25,829 double-check so talk to your state 1350 00:54:29,630 --> 00:54:27,630 legislators talk to your state you know 1351 00:54:31,069 --> 00:54:29,640 representative your state senator and 1352 00:54:32,749 --> 00:54:31,079 tell them that you thing can be a good 1353 00:54:34,849 --> 00:54:32,759 idea if your state took the lead on 1354 00:54:36,259 --> 00:54:34,859 broadband privacy because this is the 1355 00:54:37,880 --> 00:54:36,269 thing where you know we talked at the 1356 00:54:40,249 --> 00:54:37,890 top of the show about regulating the 1357 00:54:41,989 --> 00:54:40,259 entire internet regulating internet 1358 00:54:43,579 --> 00:54:41,999 providers is not the same thing as 1359 00:54:45,529 --> 00:54:43,589 regulating the entire internet because 1360 00:54:48,319 --> 00:54:45,539 you're regulating you know Comcast 1361 00:54:51,380 --> 00:54:48,329 operates in my local vicinity right they 1362 00:54:54,579 --> 00:54:51,390 have to have a franchise agreement with 1363 00:54:57,349 --> 00:54:54,589 my you know city or my County my town 1364 00:54:59,269 --> 00:54:57,359 they have to have you know a business 1365 00:55:00,589 --> 00:54:59,279 license to operate in my state because 1366 00:55:02,359 --> 00:55:00,599 they're connecting there they have 1367 00:55:05,900 --> 00:55:02,369 customers that they're directly working 1368 00:55:08,690 --> 00:55:05,910 with in you know your locality and so 1369 00:55:11,029 --> 00:55:08,700 there this is we think this is a where 1370 00:55:12,859 --> 00:55:11,039 states can pass laws that say if you 1371 00:55:14,749 --> 00:55:12,869 want to provide an internet service in 1372 00:55:16,489 --> 00:55:14,759 our state then because you're doing 1373 00:55:19,180 --> 00:55:16,499 business with customers who physically 1374 00:55:21,709 --> 00:55:19,190 live in our state and only with them 1375 00:55:23,509 --> 00:55:21,719 then you have to have some privacy 1376 00:55:25,130 --> 00:55:23,519 protections so talk to your state 1377 00:55:27,319 --> 00:55:25,140 legislators let them know that you think 1378 00:55:28,989 --> 00:55:27,329 that you want to maintain your privacy 1379 00:55:31,279 --> 00:55:28,999 with respect to your internet provider 1380 00:55:33,589 --> 00:55:31,289 I've got a question for you you may or 1381 00:55:35,420 --> 00:55:33,599 may not be able to answer but I have a 1382 00:55:40,299 --> 00:55:35,430 couple of different news apps on my 1383 00:55:43,719 --> 00:55:40,309 iPhone and and I'm in the process of 1384 00:55:47,150 --> 00:55:43,729 selling my home I have it on the market 1385 00:55:48,860 --> 00:55:47,160 but even before that just like a few 1386 00:55:51,230 --> 00:55:48,870 before I actually signed the papers and 1387 00:55:53,480 --> 00:55:51,240 all that all of a sudden on one of the 1388 00:55:55,310 --> 00:55:53,490 news apps I get this these 1389 00:55:59,110 --> 00:55:55,320 advertisements how much is your home 1390 00:56:01,430 --> 00:55:59,120 worth and on and on and on how on earth 1391 00:56:03,530 --> 00:56:01,440 did they know that I was thinking of 1392 00:56:05,090 --> 00:56:03,540 selling my house or was that just a 1393 00:56:08,210 --> 00:56:05,100 fluke it that they're still on there now 1394 00:56:09,920 --> 00:56:08,220 uh it's possible it was a fluke I mean 1395 00:56:11,630 --> 00:56:09,930 the question is what sort of searches 1396 00:56:13,070 --> 00:56:11,640 were you doing what sort of websites 1397 00:56:14,840 --> 00:56:13,080 were you visiting I mean if you were 1398 00:56:18,500 --> 00:56:14,850 doing research about you know home 1399 00:56:21,050 --> 00:56:18,510 values you know how to set up your home 1400 00:56:24,710 --> 00:56:21,060 for the best you know open house that 1401 00:56:26,930 --> 00:56:24,720 sort of thing you know how to you know 1402 00:56:28,520 --> 00:56:26,940 ten projects you should do before you 1403 00:56:31,960 --> 00:56:28,530 put your home on the market that sort of 1404 00:56:35,120 --> 00:56:31,970 thing then you were being tracked either 1405 00:56:37,100 --> 00:56:35,130 either by your internet provider who 1406 00:56:39,440 --> 00:56:37,110 then you know said that we can target 1407 00:56:41,540 --> 00:56:39,450 ads to you 1408 00:56:43,430 --> 00:56:41,550 they told some company that you know is 1409 00:56:45,830 --> 00:56:43,440 doing something with home values and 1410 00:56:49,040 --> 00:56:45,840 said we can show ads to Martin apart 1411 00:56:51,320 --> 00:56:49,050 about home values or you were trapped 1412 00:56:55,040 --> 00:56:51,330 just by embedded essentially what we 1413 00:56:56,750 --> 00:56:55,050 call third party trackers online so this 1414 00:56:58,040 --> 00:56:56,760 would have been you know content 1415 00:57:01,070 --> 00:56:58,050 embedded in the websites you were 1416 00:57:03,620 --> 00:57:01,080 visiting and to be honest this is almost 1417 00:57:05,510 --> 00:57:03,630 a topic for another entire show when I 1418 00:57:07,070 --> 00:57:05,520 could talk about third party trackers 1419 00:57:08,990 --> 00:57:07,080 for probably a whole another hour 1420 00:57:12,740 --> 00:57:09,000 there's plenty of material on the EMF 1421 00:57:14,300 --> 00:57:12,750 web site or you just you know pick your 1422 00:57:17,540 --> 00:57:14,310 favorite search engine that you trust 1423 00:57:19,010 --> 00:57:17,550 and and look up third-party trackers and 1424 00:57:21,530 --> 00:57:19,020 I'm sure you'll find articles on yet 1425 00:57:23,330 --> 00:57:21,540 that website yeah well I'm sure and you 1426 00:57:25,970 --> 00:57:23,340 know you could probably do a show almost 1427 00:57:27,170 --> 00:57:25,980 about Facebook couldn't you yeah I mean 1428 00:57:30,470 --> 00:57:27,180 Facebook is a big one if you were 1429 00:57:32,720 --> 00:57:30,480 talking about this on Facebook if you 1430 00:57:35,600 --> 00:57:32,730 are clicking links from Facebook to 1431 00:57:37,460 --> 00:57:35,610 other sites or even if these sites you 1432 00:57:39,620 --> 00:57:37,470 went to had the facebook like button on 1433 00:57:41,260 --> 00:57:39,630 them that's one way Facebook tracks what 1434 00:57:44,900 --> 00:57:41,270 people do when they're not on Facebook 1435 00:57:45,980 --> 00:57:44,910 and so yeah Facebook would could also be 1436 00:57:50,330 --> 00:57:45,990 a whole nother show 1437 00:57:53,050 --> 00:57:50,340 Wow yeah and it's all gearing in a way 1438 00:57:55,880 --> 00:57:53,060 it's like our goes back to our privacy 1439 00:57:59,390 --> 00:57:55,890 because all these things are gearing up 1440 00:58:01,550 --> 00:57:59,400 to send us to places that will spend 1441 00:58:07,609 --> 00:58:01,560 money you know yeah 1442 00:58:09,589 --> 00:58:07,619 so anyway back to net neutrality I guess 1443 00:58:12,500 --> 00:58:09,599 I'm gonna ask you this question is all 1444 00:58:16,690 --> 00:58:12,510 right what it's the other side what is 1445 00:58:19,520 --> 00:58:16,700 their best argument for the free-for-all 1446 00:58:21,230 --> 00:58:19,530 so I can tell you what I think their 1447 00:58:24,589 --> 00:58:21,240 best argument is I'm obviously a little 1448 00:58:25,940 --> 00:58:24,599 biased and so apologies if people are 1449 00:58:27,920 --> 00:58:25,950 listening this and think I butchered 1450 00:58:29,990 --> 00:58:27,930 this I'm gonna try and I'm honestly 1451 00:58:33,589 --> 00:58:30,000 gonna try and do it justice and part of 1452 00:58:35,300 --> 00:58:33,599 this is biased because to be perfectly 1453 00:58:37,790 --> 00:58:35,310 blunt EF F tends to be a fairly 1454 00:58:39,770 --> 00:58:37,800 libertarian leaning organisation we tend 1455 00:58:42,050 --> 00:58:39,780 because the whole idea of regulating the 1456 00:58:45,260 --> 00:58:42,060 internet doesn't make sense because it's 1457 00:58:48,109 --> 00:58:45,270 a worldwide thing and so to me it's the 1458 00:58:50,750 --> 00:58:48,119 libertarian argument that by regulating 1459 00:58:52,849 --> 00:58:50,760 internet providers you're cutting down 1460 00:58:55,730 --> 00:58:52,859 on the innovation that they could have 1461 00:58:58,880 --> 00:58:55,740 your force you're forcing them not to 1462 00:59:02,570 --> 00:58:58,890 charge people that want to pay extra for 1463 00:59:06,109 --> 00:59:02,580 the Facebook package or the online video 1464 00:59:08,480 --> 00:59:06,119 @hd package or the you know BitTorrent 1465 00:59:10,280 --> 00:59:08,490 package you're keeping them from 1466 00:59:11,900 --> 00:59:10,290 differentiating the market in that way 1467 00:59:15,859 --> 00:59:11,910 coming up with new ways to charge people 1468 00:59:17,930 --> 00:59:15,869 for these things and you know there's a 1469 00:59:20,030 --> 00:59:17,940 grain of truth to you know in a world 1470 00:59:20,810 --> 00:59:20,040 where internet providers could do 1471 00:59:23,180 --> 00:59:20,820 whatever they want 1472 00:59:24,470 --> 00:59:23,190 you know maybe they would start mining 1473 00:59:26,089 --> 00:59:24,480 all of our date you know maybe in the 1474 00:59:28,040 --> 00:59:26,099 internet provider would start mining all 1475 00:59:31,880 --> 00:59:28,050 of our data to provide you know super 1476 00:59:33,020 --> 00:59:31,890 fast free internet access but that's not 1477 00:59:34,670 --> 00:59:33,030 what we've seen I mean now I'm gonna 1478 00:59:37,660 --> 00:59:34,680 digress and go back to the other side 1479 00:59:40,280 --> 00:59:37,670 again it's not what we've seen so far 1480 00:59:42,560 --> 00:59:40,290 because you know with AT&T they actually 1481 00:59:44,420 --> 00:59:42,570 have a plan where they charge you more 1482 00:59:46,790 --> 00:59:44,430 if you want to keep your privacy but 1483 00:59:48,620 --> 00:59:46,800 they're still charging you you know 60 1484 00:59:51,260 --> 00:59:48,630 bucks a month even if you don't want 1485 00:59:54,050 --> 00:59:51,270 your privacy so we haven't seen them you 1486 00:59:56,000 --> 00:59:54,060 know really offer you know any sort of 1487 00:59:57,440 --> 00:59:56,010 free service or anything like that but I 1488 01:00:00,710 --> 00:59:57,450 think that's their argument is that it 1489 01:00:02,420 --> 01:00:00,720 cuts down on I mean their argument would 1490 01:00:04,130 --> 01:00:02,430 be twofold the other argument is that oh 1491 01:00:06,380 --> 01:00:04,140 we don't need it because we haven't seen 1492 01:00:09,950 --> 01:00:06,390 any actual you know bad things happen we 1493 01:00:11,089 --> 01:00:09,960 haven't seen any harm that argument I 1494 01:00:13,130 --> 01:00:11,099 don't think it's very good because I've 1495 01:00:14,670 --> 01:00:13,140 listed off a bunch and I've got plenty 1496 01:00:16,950 --> 01:00:14,680 more it's pretty decent 1497 01:00:18,510 --> 01:00:16,960 u.s. we've seen internet providers do 1498 01:00:20,490 --> 01:00:18,520 pretty creepy and pretty you know 1499 01:00:23,640 --> 01:00:20,500 terrible things when you given the 1500 01:00:25,830 --> 01:00:23,650 chance if they were trying to convince 1501 01:00:27,480 --> 01:00:25,840 me the libertarian the the argument that 1502 01:00:29,460 --> 01:00:27,490 you're you know restricting what 1503 01:00:31,230 --> 01:00:29,470 possible innovation internet providers 1504 01:00:32,430 --> 01:00:31,240 could do would be the one that would 1505 01:00:35,820 --> 01:00:32,440 have the greatest chance of convincing 1506 01:00:38,250 --> 01:00:35,830 me but even then for me it's you know 1507 01:00:40,620 --> 01:00:38,260 that may be true but I don't think you 1508 01:00:43,170 --> 01:00:40,630 should be charging more for different 1509 01:00:44,820 --> 01:00:43,180 protocols because then you may be 1510 01:00:46,680 --> 01:00:44,830 getting more innovation for internet 1511 01:00:48,660 --> 01:00:46,690 providers but you're gonna stifle 1512 01:00:50,370 --> 01:00:48,670 innovation on the you know the rest of 1513 01:00:52,050 --> 01:00:50,380 the Internet you're gonna stifle that 1514 01:00:54,780 --> 01:00:52,060 new startup that wants to use BitTorrent 1515 01:00:56,490 --> 01:00:54,790 in a really crazy but really awesome way 1516 01:00:58,440 --> 01:00:56,500 that creates some awesome new you know 1517 01:01:00,360 --> 01:00:58,450 next big app they're not gonna be able 1518 01:01:01,830 --> 01:01:00,370 to do it because now people have to pay 1519 01:01:04,980 --> 01:01:01,840 extra for the BitTorrent package or 1520 01:01:06,900 --> 01:01:04,990 something like that so it's it's that 1521 01:01:09,330 --> 01:01:06,910 sort of thing where you know it it's 1522 01:01:11,160 --> 01:01:09,340 true it the internet providers might get 1523 01:01:13,740 --> 01:01:11,170 to innovate a little bit more in pricing 1524 01:01:15,900 --> 01:01:13,750 schemes but you know in terms of overall 1525 01:01:18,990 --> 01:01:15,910 value of the Internet as a whole in our 1526 01:01:21,390 --> 01:01:19,000 lives I don't think it I don't think it 1527 01:01:25,260 --> 01:01:21,400 you know tilts the scales for me right 1528 01:01:27,450 --> 01:01:25,270 you know we have absolutely I'm sure you 1529 01:01:29,640 --> 01:01:27,460 will agree well most likely will we have 1530 01:01:31,020 --> 01:01:29,650 absolutely no what's have no idea what's 1531 01:01:33,090 --> 01:01:31,030 gonna happen in the future as far as 1532 01:01:34,710 --> 01:01:33,100 technology and any of this now is 1533 01:01:36,390 --> 01:01:34,720 heading I mean it may morph into 1534 01:01:41,940 --> 01:01:36,400 something that's totally different than 1535 01:01:46,470 --> 01:01:41,950 what we're using right now and all this 1536 01:01:49,560 --> 01:01:46,480 may mean nothing but what do you have to 1537 01:01:51,870 --> 01:01:49,570 do see the future I mean do clouds make 1538 01:01:53,730 --> 01:01:51,880 any difference or is there any type of 1539 01:01:57,030 --> 01:01:53,740 future that you're seeing we're heading 1540 01:02:00,480 --> 01:01:57,040 toward right now where net neutrality is 1541 01:02:02,990 --> 01:02:00,490 important I mean I think that I think 1542 01:02:06,390 --> 01:02:03,000 the big one is towards a future where 1543 01:02:09,150 --> 01:02:06,400 excuse me where people are I mean it's 1544 01:02:10,920 --> 01:02:09,160 it's really it's kind of the the stupid 1545 01:02:12,840 --> 01:02:10,930 extrapolation people just spend more and 1546 01:02:16,230 --> 01:02:12,850 more and more of their life online right 1547 01:02:20,220 --> 01:02:16,240 um and you know it you know eventually 1548 01:02:21,390 --> 01:02:20,230 as silly as it may sound to some people 1549 01:02:23,880 --> 01:02:21,400 you know we're not gonna have broadcast 1550 01:02:25,620 --> 01:02:23,890 TV digital or otherwise anymore it'll 1551 01:02:28,020 --> 01:02:25,630 all be on the internet everything will 1552 01:02:28,460 --> 01:02:28,030 be on the internet I'm an early candle 1553 01:02:32,570 --> 01:02:28,470 cutter my 1554 01:02:35,000 --> 01:02:32,580 so yeah I mean my five or six Packers 1555 01:02:37,160 --> 01:02:35,010 know the vast majority of millenials are 1556 01:02:38,870 --> 01:02:37,170 and it's just gonna go from there and 1557 01:02:40,700 --> 01:02:38,880 it's not because they're replacing it by 1558 01:02:44,270 --> 01:02:40,710 watching lots of broadcast over the air 1559 01:02:46,670 --> 01:02:44,280 TV either right they're just it's all on 1560 01:02:48,710 --> 01:02:46,680 the internet and so I you know I that's 1561 01:02:50,690 --> 01:02:48,720 where you know the the thing I like to 1562 01:02:52,250 --> 01:02:50,700 and I didn't come up with this so 1563 01:02:54,589 --> 01:02:52,260 whoever came up with this if you if you 1564 01:02:56,630 --> 01:02:54,599 are listening let me know but the the 1565 01:02:59,750 --> 01:02:56,640 saying I've heard is you know whatever 1566 01:03:01,160 --> 01:02:59,760 your most important issue is net 1567 01:03:03,260 --> 01:03:01,170 neutrality should be your second one 1568 01:03:04,940 --> 01:03:03,270 because it affects how people can 1569 01:03:07,550 --> 01:03:04,950 communicate online whether or not 1570 01:03:09,859 --> 01:03:07,560 internet providers can can get in 1571 01:03:15,349 --> 01:03:09,869 between and censor or choose winners and 1572 01:03:16,849 --> 01:03:15,359 losers or play favorites and so because 1573 01:03:20,060 --> 01:03:16,859 the internet is just a bigger part of 1574 01:03:22,450 --> 01:03:20,070 our lives you know if your whatever you 1575 01:03:25,250 --> 01:03:22,460 know political or you know you know 1576 01:03:27,500 --> 01:03:25,260 nonprofit cause or your favorite hobby 1577 01:03:28,820 --> 01:03:27,510 whatever it doesn't matter because in 1578 01:03:31,700 --> 01:03:28,830 the end you don't want your internet 1579 01:03:33,859 --> 01:03:31,710 provider deciding well this is you know 1580 01:03:35,420 --> 01:03:33,869 some collateral damage from some other 1581 01:03:38,060 --> 01:03:35,430 business decision we've made that 1582 01:03:39,980 --> 01:03:38,070 decides what doesn't doesn't count 1583 01:03:42,320 --> 01:03:39,990 against your data cap what services do 1584 01:03:46,460 --> 01:03:42,330 and don't you can or cannot use on our 1585 01:03:48,530 --> 01:03:46,470 serve on our internet platform so I mean 1586 01:03:50,930 --> 01:03:48,540 I feel like it's every future wherein 1587 01:03:53,300 --> 01:03:50,940 that neutrality matters well that's I 1588 01:03:55,730 --> 01:03:53,310 think that's a really good message sat 1589 01:03:59,780 --> 01:03:55,740 Saxton in our chat room is using your 1590 01:04:02,900 --> 01:03:59,790 the e FF s-- privacy badger browser 1591 01:04:04,970 --> 01:04:02,910 extension and he's up he's given it out 1592 01:04:06,740 --> 01:04:04,980 to other people in the chatroom yep 1593 01:04:09,560 --> 01:04:06,750 that's that is a good one for protecting 1594 01:04:13,400 --> 01:04:09,570 it wants as much protected from your 1595 01:04:14,720 --> 01:04:13,410 internet provider but it will protect it 1596 01:04:16,130 --> 01:04:14,730 from the I was talking about the 1597 01:04:17,870 --> 01:04:16,140 third-party tracking online and that's 1598 01:04:21,859 --> 01:04:17,880 exactly what privacy badger takes care 1599 01:04:24,109 --> 01:04:21,869 of I will say that if anyone is 1600 01:04:25,910 --> 01:04:24,119 downloading privacy badger if it doesn't 1601 01:04:28,609 --> 01:04:25,920 work for you let us know we all were 1602 01:04:30,589 --> 01:04:28,619 constantly trying to improve it and so 1603 01:04:31,940 --> 01:04:30,599 instead of just giving up on it give us 1604 01:04:33,859 --> 01:04:31,950 feedback because we want to make it 1605 01:04:37,130 --> 01:04:33,869 better we really do and it's free it's 1606 01:04:39,260 --> 01:04:37,140 open source if you you know like playing 1607 01:04:41,089 --> 01:04:39,270 with JavaScript you can contribute to 1608 01:04:42,410 --> 01:04:41,099 the code you know because it's open 1609 01:04:45,140 --> 01:04:42,420 source but um 1610 01:04:47,630 --> 01:04:45,150 yeah so that's great to hear so if the 1611 01:04:51,529 --> 01:04:47,640 average Joe out there is thinks net 1612 01:04:54,620 --> 01:04:51,539 neutrality is important what what can 1613 01:04:56,509 --> 01:04:54,630 they do to help so for now I would say 1614 01:04:57,950 --> 01:04:56,519 the the biggest thing is just keep an 1615 01:05:00,380 --> 01:04:57,960 eye on things stay abreast in the 1616 01:05:04,009 --> 01:05:00,390 situation you know read the news you 1617 01:05:07,160 --> 01:05:04,019 know the comment period is over one 1618 01:05:08,990 --> 01:05:07,170 thing you could do again is write your 1619 01:05:11,450 --> 01:05:09,000 member of Congress write your Senators 1620 01:05:15,319 --> 01:05:11,460 and let them know that this is important 1621 01:05:17,660 --> 01:05:15,329 to you because if it does end up in 1622 01:05:18,829 --> 01:05:17,670 Congress and you know there's a it could 1623 01:05:20,059 --> 01:05:18,839 end up there whether or not we'll 1624 01:05:21,890 --> 01:05:20,069 actually get anything out of it is 1625 01:05:23,660 --> 01:05:21,900 unclear but if it does you know Congress 1626 01:05:27,109 --> 01:05:23,670 decides to take something up we want 1627 01:05:29,180 --> 01:05:27,119 them to do the right thing and so you 1628 01:05:31,009 --> 01:05:29,190 know there's no bill right now in 1629 01:05:33,529 --> 01:05:31,019 Congress at least certainly none that 1630 01:05:37,009 --> 01:05:33,539 seems viable and realistic that would 1631 01:05:39,589 --> 01:05:37,019 enshrine net neutrality into law but it 1632 01:05:42,650 --> 01:05:39,599 could happen and so basically right now 1633 01:05:44,509 --> 01:05:42,660 just the best advice I can give is be 1634 01:05:47,450 --> 01:05:44,519 ready to act when it matters 1635 01:05:51,440 --> 01:05:47,460 and otherwise just sort of we just try 1636 01:05:53,089 --> 01:05:51,450 to keep the drum beat up on sort of the 1637 01:05:54,609 --> 01:05:53,099 background to make sure that members of 1638 01:05:56,630 --> 01:05:54,619 Congress you know the administration 1639 01:05:59,059 --> 01:05:56,640 understand that this is an important 1640 01:06:01,400 --> 01:05:59,069 issue and people see through sort of the 1641 01:06:03,620 --> 01:06:01,410 the BS that a lot of the internet 1642 01:06:06,859 --> 01:06:03,630 providers are putting out you know 1643 01:06:09,019 --> 01:06:06,869 there's a there's propaganda out there 1644 01:06:10,309 --> 01:06:09,029 too oh yeah yes sir 1645 01:06:12,109 --> 01:06:10,319 I know we're at the end of the show or 1646 01:06:16,240 --> 01:06:12,119 near the end if you want to talk about 1647 01:06:19,190 --> 01:06:16,250 the propaganda what where it's being 1648 01:06:21,829 --> 01:06:19,200 who's being pushed at and and what are 1649 01:06:23,779 --> 01:06:21,839 they saying so I don't know who they're 1650 01:06:26,029 --> 01:06:23,789 targeting so much I mean I think part of 1651 01:06:28,730 --> 01:06:26,039 it is the propaganda is get put out the 1652 01:06:32,089 --> 01:06:28,740 propaganda gets put out there to target 1653 01:06:38,690 --> 01:06:32,099 you know people in power Congress FCC 1654 01:06:39,890 --> 01:06:38,700 their staff or to some extent you know 1655 01:06:41,180 --> 01:06:39,900 people who don't pay very close 1656 01:06:42,980 --> 01:06:41,190 attention to the issue because this is 1657 01:06:45,620 --> 01:06:42,990 an issue where I feel like you know on 1658 01:06:48,559 --> 01:06:45,630 the surface it's very easy to to listen 1659 01:06:49,970 --> 01:06:48,569 to the ISP propaganda and think oh yeah 1660 01:06:51,380 --> 01:06:49,980 that makes sense why would we want the 1661 01:06:52,579 --> 01:06:51,390 government regulating the internet 1662 01:06:54,079 --> 01:06:52,589 because that's what they say it is all 1663 01:06:55,730 --> 01:06:54,089 the time they're like keep the 1664 01:06:58,460 --> 01:06:55,740 government out of the Internet right 1665 01:07:00,830 --> 01:06:58,470 oppressive obama regulations but if you 1666 01:07:02,690 --> 01:07:00,840 dig down for like five minutes you 1667 01:07:04,370 --> 01:07:02,700 realize wait we're not regulating the 1668 01:07:05,750 --> 01:07:04,380 internet we're talking about internet 1669 01:07:07,910 --> 01:07:05,760 providers which is a whole different 1670 01:07:09,830 --> 01:07:07,920 thing you know a comcast is an entirely 1671 01:07:13,310 --> 01:07:09,840 different beast than a netflix or a 1672 01:07:14,960 --> 01:07:13,320 Google or your or by website you know 1673 01:07:16,310 --> 01:07:14,970 it's totally different we're not talking 1674 01:07:18,550 --> 01:07:16,320 about regulating those sorts of things 1675 01:07:22,780 --> 01:07:18,560 we're talking about internet provided 1676 01:07:25,609 --> 01:07:22,790 and so that I think is you know the the 1677 01:07:28,640 --> 01:07:25,619 propaganda really sort of preys on the 1678 01:07:30,710 --> 01:07:28,650 idea that that you're not gonna dig very 1679 01:07:33,470 --> 01:07:30,720 deep and you're just gonna you know go 1680 01:07:34,640 --> 01:07:33,480 with what they say and so I mean and you 1681 01:07:36,770 --> 01:07:34,650 know I would say the other thing you 1682 01:07:37,790 --> 01:07:36,780 know in in sort of full disclosure if 1683 01:07:40,670 --> 01:07:37,800 you think what I've been saying is 1684 01:07:42,080 --> 01:07:40,680 propaganda go research yourself go take 1685 01:07:44,990 --> 01:07:42,090 a look and make your own informed 1686 01:07:47,180 --> 01:07:45,000 decision because that's the best way you 1687 01:07:50,240 --> 01:07:47,190 know that you can act in this world and 1688 01:07:52,460 --> 01:07:50,250 so that's what I would say is you know 1689 01:07:55,220 --> 01:07:52,470 you do a little research take five or 1690 01:07:56,060 --> 01:07:55,230 ten minutes and make a decision about 1691 01:07:58,850 --> 01:07:56,070 this important issue 1692 01:08:02,180 --> 01:07:58,860 now when you say vigilant you have to 1693 01:08:05,180 --> 01:08:02,190 really be vigilant and watch there's no 1694 01:08:07,400 --> 01:08:05,190 chance that this could be snuck into a 1695 01:08:09,849 --> 01:08:07,410 bill somehow you know how they do that 1696 01:08:13,190 --> 01:08:09,859 Congress can do that sometimes it's 1697 01:08:15,290 --> 01:08:13,200 possible I think it's unlikely certainly 1698 01:08:16,940 --> 01:08:15,300 I think if they've tried you know it's 1699 01:08:18,980 --> 01:08:16,950 it's not this sort of scenario where 1700 01:08:21,130 --> 01:08:18,990 they could sneak it in and it would 1701 01:08:24,380 --> 01:08:21,140 completely pass without any sort of 1702 01:08:26,210 --> 01:08:24,390 uproar or alarm um it might be the sort 1703 01:08:28,490 --> 01:08:26,220 of thing where one you know chamber of 1704 01:08:30,590 --> 01:08:28,500 Congress sneaks it in but then for the 1705 01:08:31,700 --> 01:08:30,600 other chamber to agree to it you know by 1706 01:08:33,769 --> 01:08:31,710 the time it gets to the other chamber 1707 01:08:35,900 --> 01:08:33,779 we'll know about it and be able to raise 1708 01:08:40,010 --> 01:08:35,910 the alarm I mean one thing you can do 1709 01:08:42,440 --> 01:08:40,020 and that you know again this is sort of 1710 01:08:45,559 --> 01:08:42,450 shameless self-promotion but you can 1711 01:08:47,960 --> 01:08:45,569 sign up for EFS manling list and that 1712 01:08:49,760 --> 01:08:47,970 way you'll get alerts if you know we 1713 01:08:51,380 --> 01:08:49,770 it's an emergency and we need people to 1714 01:08:55,160 --> 01:08:51,390 contact their members of Congress you 1715 01:08:56,630 --> 01:08:55,170 know right away that sort of thing but 1716 01:08:58,970 --> 01:08:56,640 if you don't want to do that 1717 01:09:02,630 --> 01:08:58,980 just stay on top of the news you could 1718 01:09:04,190 --> 01:09:02,640 go to EFS website but it this isn't an 1719 01:09:06,890 --> 01:09:04,200 issue that it that seems likely to get 1720 01:09:09,020 --> 01:09:06,900 snuck through fortunately at least you 1721 01:09:11,290 --> 01:09:09,030 know fingers crossed I hope right 1722 01:09:14,810 --> 01:09:11,300 one comment in the chat room just to 1723 01:09:17,990 --> 01:09:14,820 throw by you if now I don't know how to 1724 01:09:18,500 --> 01:09:18,000 pronounce his name PI pee alright yeah 1725 01:09:20,750 --> 01:09:18,510 yeah 1726 01:09:24,830 --> 01:09:20,760 if he stays never neutrality goes be 1727 01:09:27,830 --> 01:09:24,840 honest uh so I don't know about 1728 01:09:31,010 --> 01:09:27,840 permanently I certainly think so 1729 01:09:33,470 --> 01:09:31,020 Congress actually just voted along or 1730 01:09:36,920 --> 01:09:33,480 the Senate just today voted along near 1731 01:09:40,640 --> 01:09:36,930 party lines I think there were like four 1732 01:09:45,530 --> 01:09:40,650 Democrats who voted to confirm reconfirm 1733 01:09:47,350 --> 01:09:45,540 him as chairman of the FCC and he's the 1734 01:09:51,410 --> 01:09:47,360 one who's been the driving force I mean 1735 01:09:52,490 --> 01:09:51,420 him and the two other Republican well I 1736 01:09:55,130 --> 01:09:52,500 guess right now I don't know if they've 1737 01:09:57,560 --> 01:09:55,140 even filled the seats yet but certainly 1738 01:09:59,150 --> 01:09:57,570 he's been the driving force here and so 1739 01:10:02,480 --> 01:09:59,160 it's entirely likely that he will push 1740 01:10:04,400 --> 01:10:02,490 forward with this rollback of net 1741 01:10:09,200 --> 01:10:04,410 neutrality but then it could go to the 1742 01:10:11,060 --> 01:10:09,210 courts because you know when an agency 1743 01:10:14,480 --> 01:10:11,070 changes its mind or does a new rule 1744 01:10:15,950 --> 01:10:14,490 making it's it's susceptible to judicial 1745 01:10:19,100 --> 01:10:15,960 review to make sure that the decision 1746 01:10:22,910 --> 01:10:19,110 making process was correct and so we 1747 01:10:25,730 --> 01:10:22,920 could still win in the courts and even 1748 01:10:27,050 --> 01:10:25,740 if we you know lose in the courts again 1749 01:10:29,780 --> 01:10:27,060 it gets back to a situation where 1750 01:10:32,180 --> 01:10:29,790 neither party certainly the companies 1751 01:10:34,520 --> 01:10:32,190 and people like you and me we don't want 1752 01:10:36,170 --> 01:10:34,530 this sort of ping-pong game of whoever 1753 01:10:37,670 --> 01:10:36,180 else happens to be in the White House 1754 01:10:41,840 --> 01:10:37,680 deciding what happens with net 1755 01:10:43,640 --> 01:10:41,850 neutrality and so even if we lose now it 1756 01:10:46,310 --> 01:10:43,650 could mean that we get to a point where 1757 01:10:47,810 --> 01:10:46,320 Congress has to write a law and then we 1758 01:10:52,010 --> 01:10:47,820 have to make sure that Congress rates a 1759 01:10:54,280 --> 01:10:52,020 good law about net neutrality so I'm I'm 1760 01:10:57,920 --> 01:10:54,290 it certainly I think in their short term 1761 01:11:00,110 --> 01:10:57,930 it's the fight is complicated and and 1762 01:11:03,530 --> 01:11:00,120 you know definitely gonna be there 1763 01:11:04,940 --> 01:11:03,540 given that pie got reconfirm but I don't 1764 01:11:07,130 --> 01:11:04,950 think it's over by any stretch of the 1765 01:11:10,190 --> 01:11:07,140 imagination we've got a lot a lot of 1766 01:11:11,810 --> 01:11:10,200 ground to cover yet before the all the 1767 01:11:14,420 --> 01:11:11,820 nails are in the coffin for net 1768 01:11:19,580 --> 01:11:14,430 neutrality can you tell me the type of 1769 01:11:21,860 --> 01:11:19,590 person that is a funder for the e FF so 1770 01:11:22,850 --> 01:11:21,870 the vast majority of our yeah I should 1771 01:11:26,450 --> 01:11:22,860 have said this at 1772 01:11:29,390 --> 01:11:26,460 outset so the majority of our donations 1773 01:11:31,100 --> 01:11:29,400 so FF is a non-profit come from 1774 01:11:34,040 --> 01:11:31,110 individual members individual 1775 01:11:36,500 --> 01:11:34,050 contributors so people who just you know 1776 01:11:39,320 --> 01:11:36,510 care about the sorts of issues FF works 1777 01:11:40,760 --> 01:11:39,330 on and donate some donate more some 1778 01:11:41,390 --> 01:11:40,770 donate less we have different membership 1779 01:11:42,560 --> 01:11:41,400 levels 1780 01:11:44,600 --> 01:11:42,570 we definitely have some bigger donors 1781 01:11:46,970 --> 01:11:44,610 and we've got you know college students 1782 01:11:48,500 --> 01:11:46,980 who you know donate you know forty bucks 1783 01:11:49,910 --> 01:11:48,510 a year because that's what they can 1784 01:11:53,270 --> 01:11:49,920 afford because they're you know just 1785 01:11:56,870 --> 01:11:53,280 trying to make it through college we get 1786 01:11:59,209 --> 01:11:56,880 a tiny bit of money uh yeah I mean I I 1787 01:12:00,740 --> 01:11:59,219 want to say I think it varies from year 1788 01:12:03,320 --> 01:12:00,750 to year some years it's like twenty 1789 01:12:04,609 --> 01:12:03,330 percent I don't think it's ever much 1790 01:12:08,470 --> 01:12:04,619 more than that usually it's actually 1791 01:12:10,760 --> 01:12:08,480 quite a bit less from companies 1792 01:12:13,070 --> 01:12:10,770 particularly because you know the 1793 01:12:15,800 --> 01:12:13,080 companies don't like to fund us much 1794 01:12:17,419 --> 01:12:15,810 because we call it how we see it and 1795 01:12:18,770 --> 01:12:17,429 sometimes we're praising Google and 1796 01:12:20,330 --> 01:12:18,780 Facebook because they did something 1797 01:12:23,450 --> 01:12:20,340 that's good for the security and 1798 01:12:25,609 --> 01:12:23,460 sometimes we're criticizing them because 1799 01:12:28,070 --> 01:12:25,619 we did some they did something that's 1800 01:12:31,250 --> 01:12:28,080 bad for privacy that's usually how the 1801 01:12:34,910 --> 01:12:31,260 dichotomy goes I don't think we've ever 1802 01:12:36,979 --> 01:12:34,920 had a ISP oh that's not true so there 1803 01:12:40,820 --> 01:12:36,989 are some some small ISPs I think which 1804 01:12:42,620 --> 01:12:40,830 have donated EF F in the past but we've 1805 01:12:45,800 --> 01:12:42,630 never had a big you know Comcast or 1806 01:12:49,399 --> 01:12:45,810 Verizon donate to us which if not to be 1807 01:12:52,370 --> 01:12:49,409 surprising yeah um but oh the majority 1808 01:12:55,160 --> 01:12:52,380 of it we also sometimes get money 1809 01:12:56,689 --> 01:12:55,170 through awards in court so if we do end 1810 01:12:58,750 --> 01:12:56,699 up taking someone to court we can get 1811 01:13:02,629 --> 01:12:58,760 the court we can get the attorney's fees 1812 01:13:03,979 --> 01:13:02,639 or if there's there's now it's this 1813 01:13:07,040 --> 01:13:03,989 complicated thing called sigh praise 1814 01:13:09,160 --> 01:13:07,050 which are a whole nother story but 1815 01:13:11,899 --> 01:13:09,170 sometimes if a company basically has 1816 01:13:13,490 --> 01:13:11,909 violated people's privacy or something 1817 01:13:16,820 --> 01:13:13,500 like that the court realizes that 1818 01:13:19,220 --> 01:13:16,830 sending $2 to every person whose privacy 1819 01:13:21,470 --> 01:13:19,230 was violated isn't gonna do much to 1820 01:13:23,359 --> 01:13:21,480 better the world but giving it to an 1821 01:13:25,399 --> 01:13:23,369 organisation or splitting it between an 1822 01:13:27,979 --> 01:13:25,409 organization like the e FF and epic or 1823 01:13:30,290 --> 01:13:27,989 ACLU or consumer watchdog or other 1824 01:13:32,959 --> 01:13:30,300 organizations that advocate on behalf of 1825 01:13:35,689 --> 01:13:32,969 consumers would make more sense and they 1826 01:13:36,709 --> 01:13:35,699 you know a lump sum so sometimes we get 1827 01:13:38,270 --> 01:13:36,719 that but that's 1828 01:13:41,359 --> 01:13:38,280 it totally depends on what the court 1829 01:13:43,819 --> 01:13:41,369 wants to do and that's win I'll pardon 1830 01:13:45,080 --> 01:13:43,829 me is that like a class-action suit so 1831 01:13:46,729 --> 01:13:45,090 yeah usually there'll be a class-action 1832 01:13:50,390 --> 01:13:46,739 that EF F or these other organizations 1833 01:13:51,979 --> 01:13:50,400 aren't a part of but the as part of the 1834 01:13:53,569 --> 01:13:51,989 decision the you know the company will 1835 01:13:55,069 --> 01:13:53,579 say well instead of giving everyone you 1836 01:13:57,649 --> 01:13:55,079 know two dollars why don't we donate it 1837 01:13:58,969 --> 01:13:57,659 to EF F or the ACLU epic etc all these 1838 01:14:01,910 --> 01:13:58,979 these people I just all these 1839 01:14:04,189 --> 01:14:01,920 organizations I just listed who are sort 1840 01:14:05,959 --> 01:14:04,199 of privacy watchdog and so we get that 1841 01:14:08,060 --> 01:14:05,969 sometimes but you know we never know 1842 01:14:09,500 --> 01:14:08,070 when that's gonna happen so we don't you 1843 01:14:11,419 --> 01:14:09,510 know count on that as part of our budget 1844 01:14:14,029 --> 01:14:11,429 what we really count on is getting 1845 01:14:17,299 --> 01:14:14,039 donations from individual members 1846 01:14:19,489 --> 01:14:17,309 individual contributors we don't take 1847 01:14:21,140 --> 01:14:19,499 any government money because you know I 1848 01:14:22,700 --> 01:14:21,150 almost all of the you know what I've 1849 01:14:24,709 --> 01:14:22,710 talked about today has been privacy and 1850 01:14:26,810 --> 01:14:24,719 security with respect to you companies 1851 01:14:29,359 --> 01:14:26,820 but we do you know a whole big chunk of 1852 01:14:30,739 --> 01:14:29,369 EFS work is suing the government for the 1853 01:14:31,939 --> 01:14:30,749 government doing things that are against 1854 01:14:33,529 --> 01:14:31,949 the Constitution which is you know a 1855 01:14:35,330 --> 01:14:33,539 whole nother you know our show or 1856 01:14:38,299 --> 01:14:35,340 several of them at least 1857 01:14:40,219 --> 01:14:38,309 so we we don't take money from directly 1858 01:14:46,100 --> 01:14:40,229 from the government not from the NSA no 1859 01:14:49,399 --> 01:14:46,110 not from the NSA yeah so it's it's 1860 01:14:52,489 --> 01:14:49,409 almost all individual contributors well 1861 01:14:54,049 --> 01:14:52,499 our Cyrus it the majority yeah and and 1862 01:14:55,879 --> 01:14:54,059 if you're curious our financials are on 1863 01:14:58,879 --> 01:14:55,889 our website you go look it up there in 1864 01:15:00,919 --> 01:14:58,889 our annual report usually on I apologize 1865 01:15:02,689 --> 01:15:00,929 they're delayed about a year because it 1866 01:15:04,729 --> 01:15:02,699 takes you know the way the fiscal year 1867 01:15:07,069 --> 01:15:04,739 works and getting stuff together and you 1868 01:15:09,229 --> 01:15:07,079 know we only have again we're mostly 1869 01:15:11,029 --> 01:15:09,239 focused on doing the good stuff and so 1870 01:15:13,700 --> 01:15:11,039 we only have like two people who work on 1871 01:15:15,379 --> 01:15:13,710 the finances on the backend and putting 1872 01:15:18,410 --> 01:15:15,389 those things together so apologies that 1873 01:15:20,450 --> 01:15:18,420 it's a little delayed but you can also 1874 01:15:24,080 --> 01:15:20,460 look up that for yourself on our website 1875 01:15:27,169 --> 01:15:24,090 and that's a EF F dot org right that's 1876 01:15:29,209 --> 01:15:27,179 it yeah yeah org example a great little 1877 01:15:31,669 --> 01:15:29,219 domain name well thank you so much it's 1878 01:15:32,719 --> 01:15:31,679 been a real pleasure and as someone 1879 01:15:35,390 --> 01:15:32,729 mentioned in the chatroom 1880 01:15:37,370 --> 01:15:35,400 they loved your enthusiasm I agree thank 1881 01:15:38,359 --> 01:15:37,380 you I appreciate that I try to make it 1882 01:15:41,959 --> 01:15:38,369 interesting because I know net 1883 01:15:44,930 --> 01:15:41,969 neutrality can be sort of a a a stodgy 1884 01:15:46,939 --> 01:15:44,940 dull subject but it's important and so 1885 01:15:48,680 --> 01:15:46,949 that's why I try to make it make it him 1886 01:15:50,029 --> 01:15:48,690 you know sound a little more interesting 1887 01:15:50,450 --> 01:15:50,039 so thank you so much for having me I 1888 01:15:51,800 --> 01:15:50,460 really 1889 01:15:55,010 --> 01:15:51,810 and thank you for trying to make a 1890 01:15:56,330 --> 01:15:55,020 difference absolutely it's I'm happy - 1891 01:15:58,729 --> 01:15:56,340 all right excellent 1892 01:16:01,310 --> 01:15:58,739 all right you take care you too thanks 1893 01:16:02,959 --> 01:16:01,320 so much all right all right everyone so 1894 01:16:05,870 --> 01:16:02,969 that's it for the show 1895 01:16:08,810 --> 01:16:05,880 and we are gonna be back next week with 1896 01:16:11,870 --> 01:16:08,820 dr. Jeffrey Bennett and he's going to be 1897 01:16:14,900 --> 01:16:11,880 talking about Einstein's a hundred years 1898 01:16:17,240 --> 01:16:14,910 of relativity dr. Jeffrey Bennett 1899 01:16:21,080 --> 01:16:17,250 astrophysicists great guy very very 1900 01:16:23,390 --> 01:16:21,090 interesting alright everyone so this is 1901 01:16:26,050 --> 01:16:23,400 Martin Willis and thanks so much for